S&W M19 strongest years of manufacture
- Thread starter Elerius
- Start date
The dash-system gets it's most confusing to folks when they try to compare one model's "dash" to that of another model. That doesn't work. The dash means the model went through what S&W considers an "engineering change" which all by itself is a bit confusing or annoying, because sometimes it seems like a small change results in a new dash number while a -BIG- change did NOT, so go figure. But a Model 60 (just for example) had a royal slew of dash numbers, where some other revolvers (say a Model 586) had a paltry few.
So if you are looking at a Model 19-3, we know we are talking about a 1970's era K-frame. But a dash-3 in a Model 19 is nothing WHATSOEVER anything at all, in any way, like a dash-3 of some other model, even if the models themselves were similar in many or most ways.
I probably didn't explain that well.
Bottom line is that dash number -IS- important, but only important to that model. Don't try to compare a 60-3 to a 19-3 because it's like comparing apples to Buicks.I know the pinned barrels are supposed to be of higher quality (although it might not be necessary.)
The pinned barrel itself, or the pinning of the barrel doesn't say to many or most that this particular "part" is of higher quality, but what it DOES say to many of us is that the gun itself comes from an earlier time, when S&W did things a different way than they do now. Many have made fine arguments that some things (many things?) from S&W are made as good or even better now than they did before 1982 or 1983, which happens to be when pinned barrels became history.
I'm of the camp that Smith & Wesson revolvers -WERE- better in earlier times, but I realize that I don't know everything and others have very valid opinions and experiences. But I do know (for sure) that older Smith & Wesson revolvers make me happier than newer ones do, so that's what I tend to chase. A "pinned" barrel is just a quick visual clue that it's a pre-1983 gun, which gets my interest.
The recessed chamber seems to be the other big thing. Is blowing out case heads a problem people have had? Which dash model was the last to have recessed chambers?
Again, it's not a "which dash" as it's a different dash across the line, but only the Magnums ever had the recessed chambers, and nobody has ever proven (or even attempted to prove, to my knowledge) that they offer, well, ANYTHING over the modern, non-recessed chambers. They are *neat*, especially if all your experience is without them... and then you get your first one!
They are a little more annoying to clean. In the real world, they don't really offer any tangible upgrade and simply cost S&W more to make, so they ceased the recessed chambers.So if all your concern is with safety, I can say you can put that one to rest, there exists no safety issue with or without, or with regards to recessed chambers.
I have owned two different Model 19's, a dash-3 and a dash-4. My dash-3 is one of my favorite guns and I got rid of my dash-4 because of it. In the case of these two specific revolvers, there's no doubt my dash-3 was better in every way. But I'm quite sure I could find another 3 & 4 and get the opposite result.
If you want a Model 19, start lookin' at them every where you go and pick them up. Read Jim March's "revolver checkout" that is a sticky topic at the top of this forum to help you make your purchase. IMO, for what you are looking for right now, the dash number is of precious little consequence; you simply need to find a good Model 19. I'm sure if/when you do, you'll be thrilled with it, as the Model 19 is magic!
lee n. field
New member
Unfired? ha ha ha ha! Not likely.
I will agree, very unlikely.
But I will -HAVE- to add... that I did!
I couldn't repeat the feat, I'm sure. But I can tell you a good way that you might, if you are willing to pay a premium to do it.
My 19-3 is a Texas Rangers Commemorative model. It has some gold lettering on it, the S&W Presentation grips with alternate Texas Rangers medallions on them and it has a half-shaved trigger guard. Not only is it otherwise simply a Model 19-3 (four inch), the standard catalog says that some over-runs were made with the shaved trigger guard that ended up simply going on the market at regular 19-3 revolvers without the Texas Rangers highlights.
This revolver was offered for the 1973 year which was the 150th Anniversary of the Texas Rangers. It was offered in two different packages, one with an accessory knife that bore the same serial number as the revolver, and one without the knife. A custom wooden display case is part of the package.
They do appear at gun shows and on Gunbroker.
Here's one you could buy immediately if you could justify the dough:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=368658128
Here is another:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=369244797
They made thousands of them, so they aren't outrageously scarce.
Mine is a shooter, but as it had some scuffing on the grip and a faint cylinder drag line, and because it happened to be in the hands of a gent who simply didn't want it, I got a screaming deal on it. No, "commemoratives" and "collectibles" aren't my thing at all. I bought it because I wanted a great Model 19, and it absolutely is.
Mine's got just under 500 rounds through it, but I haven't really yet given it the attention it deserves. I plan to radically increase that number.
Good luck!
But I will -HAVE- to add... that I did!
I couldn't repeat the feat, I'm sure. But I can tell you a good way that you might, if you are willing to pay a premium to do it.
My 19-3 is a Texas Rangers Commemorative model. It has some gold lettering on it, the S&W Presentation grips with alternate Texas Rangers medallions on them and it has a half-shaved trigger guard. Not only is it otherwise simply a Model 19-3 (four inch), the standard catalog says that some over-runs were made with the shaved trigger guard that ended up simply going on the market at regular 19-3 revolvers without the Texas Rangers highlights.
This revolver was offered for the 1973 year which was the 150th Anniversary of the Texas Rangers. It was offered in two different packages, one with an accessory knife that bore the same serial number as the revolver, and one without the knife. A custom wooden display case is part of the package.
They do appear at gun shows and on Gunbroker.
Here's one you could buy immediately if you could justify the dough:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=368658128
Here is another:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=369244797
They made thousands of them, so they aren't outrageously scarce.
Mine is a shooter, but as it had some scuffing on the grip and a faint cylinder drag line, and because it happened to be in the hands of a gent who simply didn't want it, I got a screaming deal on it. No, "commemoratives" and "collectibles" aren't my thing at all. I bought it because I wanted a great Model 19, and it absolutely is.
Mine's got just under 500 rounds through it, but I haven't really yet given it the attention it deserves. I plan to radically increase that number.
Good luck!
Just an FYI.
1955 = Introduction of the Combat Magnum (no model number).
1957 = S&W begins assigning model numbers. Com. Mag becomes Model 19
1959 = 19-1 Change extractor rod from right to left hand thread.
1961 = 19-2 Cylinder stop changed. Delete trigger stop screw.
1967 = 19-3 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw.
1977 = 19-4 Gas ring moved from yoke to cylinder.
1982 = 19-5 Elimination of the pinned barrel, counter bored cylinder. Cylinder length changed.
1988 = 19-6 New yoke retention system, radius stud, floating hand and hammer nose bushing.
1994 = 19-7 Rubber grip, drill and tap frame, change extractor and rear sight leaf.
1998 = 19-8 Change frame design. MIM parts. Floating firing pin.
Jim
1955 = Introduction of the Combat Magnum (no model number).
1957 = S&W begins assigning model numbers. Com. Mag becomes Model 19
1959 = 19-1 Change extractor rod from right to left hand thread.
1961 = 19-2 Cylinder stop changed. Delete trigger stop screw.
1967 = 19-3 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw.
1977 = 19-4 Gas ring moved from yoke to cylinder.
1982 = 19-5 Elimination of the pinned barrel, counter bored cylinder. Cylinder length changed.
1988 = 19-6 New yoke retention system, radius stud, floating hand and hammer nose bushing.
1994 = 19-7 Rubber grip, drill and tap frame, change extractor and rear sight leaf.
1998 = 19-8 Change frame design. MIM parts. Floating firing pin.
Jim
Hey, good information, and I can use that table to better express a point I made earlier. Each of those changes was, in Smith & Wesson's estimation, important enough that it called for a new dash number designation. Fair enough!
Now I have a Model 17-6 (K-frame, double action .22LR revolver) and my dash-6 just so happens to have a traditional six inch target barrel. But somewhere in the dash-6 variant, Smith & Wesson decided to make the Model 17 a full lug barreled revolver.
Now if you'll ever have occasion to compare a regular target barrel and a similar revolver with a full-lug heavy barrel, I think you might agree that this is no small variation whatsoever! It completely, entirely, and without argument changes the feel, the balance, radically alters the weight and radically alters the look of the revolver.
I don't know how many 17-6 revolvers were made with the standard six inch target barrel before they went to the full lug, and I don't even know where or how to get an estimate of the "percentage" of which barrel was made. (not that having it's own dash-number would help with that...)
But it sure seems to me like it might have been worthy of a dash number change!
Now I have a Model 17-6 (K-frame, double action .22LR revolver) and my dash-6 just so happens to have a traditional six inch target barrel. But somewhere in the dash-6 variant, Smith & Wesson decided to make the Model 17 a full lug barreled revolver.
Now if you'll ever have occasion to compare a regular target barrel and a similar revolver with a full-lug heavy barrel, I think you might agree that this is no small variation whatsoever! It completely, entirely, and without argument changes the feel, the balance, radically alters the weight and radically alters the look of the revolver.
I don't know how many 17-6 revolvers were made with the standard six inch target barrel before they went to the full lug, and I don't even know where or how to get an estimate of the "percentage" of which barrel was made. (not that having it's own dash-number would help with that...)
But it sure seems to me like it might have been worthy of a dash number change!
Mike Irwin
Staff
" but only the Magnums ever had the recessed chambers"
The .22s have always had either recessed chambers or recessed cylinders.
In a .22, that's more of a functional necessity because .22 cases can, and do, blow out from time to time.
The .22s have always had either recessed chambers or recessed cylinders.
In a .22, that's more of a functional necessity because .22 cases can, and do, blow out from time to time.
Okay, maybe I'd be holding out for a lot longer than I'd like for an unfired 19-3. But I have seen some on GB unfired, or extremely lightly used, within one dash of the -3 at least according to the timeline posted above. I think that will suit me fine, but I'll have to put money aside to snatch one when it comes up
I just bought a very nice Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum in blue, 5.5 inch barrel. That should hold me over in the revolver dept until I can pick up a Model 19
I just bought a very nice Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum in blue, 5.5 inch barrel. That should hold me over in the revolver dept until I can pick up a Model 19
Sevens,
While the 17-6 included the full lug barrel change, S&W continued to use the non full lug barrels still in stock. So, some -6's without full lug barrels exist, such as yours.
1931 = K-22 Outdoorsman.
1940 = K-22 Masterpiece prewar.
1946 = K-22 Masterpiece postwar.
1957 = S&W begins assigning model numbers. K-22 becomes model 17
1959 = 17-1 Change extractor rod from right to left hand thread.
1961 = 17-2 Delete trigger guard screw, change cylinder stop.
1967 = 17-3 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw.
1968 = Delete diamond grips.
1977 = 17-4 Gas ring moved from yoke to cylinder.
1982 = Delete pinned barrel.
1986 = Introduce 4" heavy barrel in place of model 18.
1988 = 17-5 New yoke retention system, radius stud.
1990 = 17-6 Full lug barrel with new yoke retention system. Some early 17-6's reported without full lug barrel. Replaces discontinued 17-5.
1993 = Discontinue 8.375" barrel.
1994 = 17-7 Drill and tap frame, change extractor and rear sight leaf.
1996 = 17-8 Ten shot alloy version. Replaces discontinued 17-7.
1997 = MIM trigger.
Jim
While the 17-6 included the full lug barrel change, S&W continued to use the non full lug barrels still in stock. So, some -6's without full lug barrels exist, such as yours.
1931 = K-22 Outdoorsman.
1940 = K-22 Masterpiece prewar.
1946 = K-22 Masterpiece postwar.
1957 = S&W begins assigning model numbers. K-22 becomes model 17
1959 = 17-1 Change extractor rod from right to left hand thread.
1961 = 17-2 Delete trigger guard screw, change cylinder stop.
1967 = 17-3 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw.
1968 = Delete diamond grips.
1977 = 17-4 Gas ring moved from yoke to cylinder.
1982 = Delete pinned barrel.
1986 = Introduce 4" heavy barrel in place of model 18.
1988 = 17-5 New yoke retention system, radius stud.
1990 = 17-6 Full lug barrel with new yoke retention system. Some early 17-6's reported without full lug barrel. Replaces discontinued 17-5.
1993 = Discontinue 8.375" barrel.
1994 = 17-7 Drill and tap frame, change extractor and rear sight leaf.
1996 = 17-8 Ten shot alloy version. Replaces discontinued 17-7.
1997 = MIM trigger.
Jim
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