S&W lock

I have 2 686's one from '80 a 6" no-lock another from '06 a 4" with the lock. Both shoot great. Yes that little hole looks like crap, and the fit and finish are better on the older model, but it's not any more or less accurate or reliable. My '67 M-19 has workmanship than my 686's, my '49 K-38 has better workmanship than my M-19...and so on and so on. Bottom line is none of them have been anymore or less reliable or accurate and all of them do what I want them to do and I love 'em all, although the M-19 is my favorite.
If you find something you like and it does what you want it to do and does it well and reliably, it doesn't matter.
 
A few reported cases out of hundreds of thousands of guns and people go nuts

That statement only works until you really need it and it locks on you. I'll give you an unrelated example. My friend's daughter worked as a volunteer at Boston's marathon this year. She was standing right across the street when one of the bombs went of. Close enough that she had someone else blood on her. She wasn't physically harmed. Not a scratch. But were she 30 feet closer, she would be one of the victims. Up until I've heard about it I thought "There were thousands of people on that marathon. Only three have died, it's a miracle the number is so low". The second I knew she was right near by my thoughts were completely different...

The point I am making that you think of numbers and go like "oh, it's only a few out of thousands" until something happens to you or someone you know... and then there is a question: would you still buy S&W with the lock, when you can avoid it?
 
I've never had any problem with mine. Shoot lefty like I do, and you don't even have to look at the little hole in the frame.
 
The lock is hideous and the reasoning behind it is foolish. That said, I think it took me a whole ten minutes to get over it when I bought my first IL equipped S&W. Truth be told, I've been known to use the lock from to time to time. For instance, this weekend the family and I went to go visit my parents. At some point i wanted to shower and would be leaving the gun unattended. Since my young nieces and siblings were there as well, I locked up the gun using the IL and then took all the ammo into the bathroom with me. Just like most people, I'd rather it was not there.
 
I'll admit, it's far more to me than just function

There are so many who view it as "irrational" to reject a S&W because of a silly hole. But there are others who can't fathom how "they" can just ignore it.

The elegant look of an old Smith & Wesson is like a fine wine or classic automobile. Yes, Mad Dog 20/20 and Boones Farm will still get you drunk, and a ford escort will still get you from point A to B. But for many of us "taste and elegance" are more important than.... "it's just a stupid hole, get over it".

Well.... Just like many of us could never get over an idiot drilling a big hole in the side of a prestine 57 Chevy for no reason. We find it just as hard to rationalize another idiot drilling a hole in the side of an artistic classic wheelgun.
 
It violates the KISS principle for worse than no good reason.
Why should I buy one when the old ones aren't that hard to come by?
 
aid_admin said:
The point I am making that you think of numbers and go like "oh, it's only a few out of thousands" until something happens to you or someone you know... and then there is a question: would you still buy S&W with the lock, when you can avoid it?

Will your friend's daughter still go to the Boston Marathon, even though she can avoid it?

Will she go to a movie theater (Colorado shooter) even though she can avoid it?

Will she drive or ride in a car (much better chance of death than a bombing or shooting) even though she can avoid it?

Will she fly on a plane even though she can avoid it?

Sometimes it's nice to apply a little logic to your choices despite the media/internet hype about certain subjects.
 
Sometimes it's nice to apply a little logic to your choices despite the media/internet hype about certain subjects.

And the logic tells me the following: if I had no choice then having the lock is not the end of the world. I shot hundreds if not thousands of rounds through the rental guns with locks and never had an issue. But if I can obtain the older version without the lock, even in LNIB condition for basically same money, why should I take ANY chances at all with the lock?

It sure nice to apply a little logic and make the right choice :rolleyes:
 
I find it logical to select a revolver with no unneeded parts, better asthetics, better build with some handfitting and better resale value than the ugly wind up guns wearing the famous logo.

And I get them for less than the asking prices of the current production junk. :)
 
I only have one S&W revolver with the lock.....so far , it has not hindered the performance of my model 627 Pro ! In fact , of all my S&W's that date back to the 70's this revolver will out perform the others in DA or SA mode of fire ! The only gun that will consistently shoot better groups is my old S&W Model 41 semi auto .22 pistol ! Having said that I do like the older Smiths better without the lock...I never use it !
 
If the lock ever fails on a self defense gun, can your next of kin send it back to S&W to have it repaired under warranty, or does that only apply to the original owner's lifetime? Technically he was alive as the issue occurred.
 
Not a fan of the lock, but i recently purchased an IL revolver. I've been looking for a 2 5/8" barrel 627 PC, but unfortunately the pre-lock versions are more than double (some triple) the price of current 627s with the lock. I thought of shipping a 1 of 200 6 1/2" barrel 627 PC to Performance Center to have them install the snub barrel, but i wised up and sold it off to a collector before i went through with it. Will soon be ordering the plug kit to make things better...and will have $1000+ left over.
 
It seems very easy to remove the lock, plenty of links and How To available.
I understand if your a purist you dont want the lock hole. SS guns can be filled and filed with a TIG and no one would know any different.
 
If the lock ever fails on a self defense gun, can your next of kin send it back to S&W to have it repaired under warranty, or does that only apply to the original owner's lifetime? Technically he was alive as the issue occurred.

Is there any evidence that if a part is going to break on a Smith revolver, it will necessarily be one of the lock parts? I've had to have a trigger replaced under warranty on one of my Smiths, but no trouble with the lock.
 
This will be my one and only post in this thread as I've participated in more long, drawn-out, and frustrating lock debates than I care to remember and have no desire to get mired in another one.

The lock, to me, is a non-issue. The two ILS-equipped revolvers that I've owned shot just as well, if not better, than the pre-lock revolvers I've owned. After researching the issue, I've come to the conclusion that the number of documented cases in which a S&W revolver failed to function properly because of the ILS is so small as to be statistically insignificant. I've come to the conclusion that the S&W lock is not significantly more likely to cause a revolver to malfunction than any of the other parts which could potentially cause a S&W, or any other handgun for that matter, to fail. The whole issue has, IMHO, been blown out of proportion by questionable reports of anonymous posters within the internet echo chamber.

I've also come to the conclusion that in the extremely rare instance in which the lock does cause a problem, it is due to defective, broken, or improperly-fitted parts rather than a design flaw. The reason for this is because I understand the manner in which the lock works. When engaged, the lock "flag" rotates up and back towards the shooter thus allowing a small tab on the "flag" to engage a recess in the hammer and prevent it's movement. The "flag" cannot engage the hammer when the revolver is at full lockup, as it would be at the moment it's fired, and the recoil arc of the gun will force the "flag" down and out of engagement through inertia. I also notice that reports of problems with the lock seem to be most common in lightweight guns such as those with scandium-alloy frames firing heavy-recoiling ammunition such as .357 and .44 Magnum. This makes sense as a defective or improperly-fitted part will be more likely to fail and fail sooner if subjected to the extra beating of a lightweight magnum. I also notice that repeated lock failure is nearly unheard of if, after the first incident, the revolver is returned to S&W for repair.

It seems to me that the majority of people who bash the S&W lock do so out of personal preference and that the motivation for such is usually rooted in aesthetics or politics. As far as looks is concerned, I will concede that I don't find ILS guns to be quite as visually appealing as pre-lock examples, but I still think that S&W makes one of the better looking revolvers in the market. As far as looks is concerned, I personally feel that a half-lug revolver with the lock still looks better than a pre-lock gun with a full underlug, but that's simply my personal preference and I don't disparage the quality of full-lug guns nor the people that prefer them.

Politics is the other major factor that seems to be at play here as many still begrudge S&W for the Agreement of 2000 with the Clinton Administration. Such people often stoop the the use of childish invectives like "Smith & Clinton" or "Hillary Hole" thus exposing their underlying bias. I, personally, think that it's somewhat silly to continue boycotting S&W over this as the parent company which entered the agreement no longer holds interest in S&W, the new owners have publicly stated that they consider the agreement null and void, and S&W was never in full compliance with the agreement to begin with. If we boycotted every company who ever failed to maintain a "no compromise" attitude with gun-control advocates, many of the larger firearm makers would be out of business and the gun grabbers would get exactly what they wanted.

So there you have my take on the subject. I'm sure that some here will disagree with me vehemently and I've probably debated the subject with most of those people before. I simply don't have the time or patience to circle that tree again, but a search on the subject will reveal a great deal of information to those who are unsure or curious. If anyone has a legitimate question on the issue, I'd be more that happy to answer a PM, but I'm not getting drawn into another urinating competition.
 
Webleymkv, this is a very in-depth and very sounding post and thank you for that. As a newbie to revolvers I really appreciate that. But put yourself in the shoes of someone not so experienced (like OP or perhaps myself) choosing an average revolver for targets AND defense, lets say 686. All esthetics and biasing aside. Given a choice of buying a new one with the lock or a LNIB older version without the lock for the similar price, wouldn't I be better off with an older no-lock one?
 
Given a choice of buying a new one with the lock or a LNIB older version without the lock for the similar price, wouldn't I be better off with an older no-lock one?

Yes, you'd be better off buying older if what your are looking for is a prelock revolver. If you want a newer one then buy a newer one. The point trying to be made by Webleymkv, I think, is that it's a moot point. Buy what you want and don't worry about it. Guns malfunction. Non lock guns malfunction, IL guns malfunction. Buy what YOU want.
 
AID_Admin said:
All esthetics and biasing aside. Given a choice of buying a new one with the lock or a LNIB older version without the lock for the similar price, wouldn't I be better off with an older no-lock one?

Not necessarily, if aesthetics and resale aren't an issue.

I've generally found no functional difference. What matters more to me are the features available only on the newer ones: pinned front sight, new style cylinder release, frame-mounted firing pin. Right now, the -5 and -6s have these features I prefer, and between them, only the -5 was pre-lock. Still, my main match gun is a -6 (and I'm a master-level shooter, knocking on the door of a national title), while my -5 is my backup until my -6 is shot out. Again, my -6 has over 70+ hard rounds through it, with nary a hiccup, so while I do own some older ones, I'd be hard-pressed to find anything categorically wrong with my newer guns.

BTW, I did an action job on a friend's early 686 no-dash, and it looked like hung-over monkeys with rasps put it together, so IMO, it's an over-simplified cliché that older guns are "better". Webleymkv expressed my thoughts on the matter pretty well.
 
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