S&W Internal Lock Redux

JR2017

Inactive
A Scenario for Consideration:

You carry, concealed or not, and you go about your day almost forgetting the you are carrying. Your guard is down, and without warning some event renders you unconscious or otherwise temporarily disables you physically or mentally, or someone simply pick-pockets your sidearm.

What means do you have to prevent someone from using your firearm, in those situations?

If you had the internal lock engaged it would take some time for the assailant to find the key and unlock the firearm, giving you time to regain consciousness and possibly remove yourself from the situation or take control if the aggressor is not as capable physically.

Whenever you carry, all confrontations are armed confrontations, even if the assailant is not armed. Why would we want to arm the assailant with a functioning firearm?

The value of carrying is as follows (my observations of course, please share yours):
... You don't have to try to buy a gun the moment someone is attacking you.
... You don't have to run back to your car to get your gun.
... You don't have to unpack your backpack or other bag to find your gun.
... You know where it is and can unlock it at any time when you are ready to put it in your hand to prepare to use it.
... You are not likely to win a quick-draw in any confrontation in which an assailant already has a firearm (or other weapon) pointed at you, and is within 10 feet. (Of course, their gun might not be loaded, might not be real, they could miss, could jam, ... etc. So, please note that I'm trying to be realistic.)
... If you realize that you will be entering an environment that may be risky to pass-through, and you have no reasonable option to avoid the environment, you can quickly unlock your firearm and place it in your hand in an appropriately concealed manner, then proceed through the risky environment with the best probability of protecting yourself. After passing through the risky environment, you can re-lock the gun.

An internal lock (a properly functioning internal lock) is not noticeable, adds essentially no weight to the firearm, is much less expensive than most other locking options, and does not reduce the value of producing a firearm in confrontation with an unarmed assailant. The mere showing of a gun in your hand will make the assailant think twice, and because there is no outward sign of the gun being locked, they will not know!

You are smart, you've made preparations to protect yourself.

Please consider the value of a properly functioning internal lock as additional protection for you and your family.

Recall that it typically takes many years for the general population to understand the value of methods and technology that the wisest among us have created for our benefit. I might not be one of those wisest, but I like to think that I recognize a good idea when I think through realistic scenarios. I think that you can choose to align, when you become aware of a good idea, even if your neighbor does not understand it.
 
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If you had the internal lock engaged it would take some time for the assailant to find the key and unlock the firearm, giving you time to regain consciousness and possibly remove yourself from the situation or take control if the aggressor is not as capable physically.

Why would anyone conceal/open carry a firearm with an internal lock engaged? Besides that, carrying it unloaded would be about as safe without a mechanism which looks unsightly and might possibly malfunction.
 
I personally own a number of S&W pistols none with locks and one has MIM parts within. All of the pistols perform in the same efficient manner with nice trigger’s pulling through smooth as butter that includes the MIM hammer and trigger. Although I do not wish to have an internal lock ( or any stinkin’ lawyer lock) on the pistol, having MIM parts which I believe will last every bit as long as a forged and hardened one will.
 
What AT082268 said. In a life or death situation, you don't have time to fumble with unlocking an internal lock. I know of no police trainer who would advocate for one on a duty sidearm and many cops are killed with their own firearms. If you're that worried about being disarmed, how about not carrying or possessing a firearm at all?
 
JR,

Welcome to TFL. We hope you like the forum and that you come back often.

A little housekeeping, though. Normally we frown on reopening years old threads to post in them as if conversation stopped yesterday. Sometimes it's pertinent, most of the time the subject would be best covered in an entirely new thread.

Such is the case with your commentary about the S&W lock. I've moved your original post and all of the replies to a new thread.

That said, the S&W internal lock has been with us for well over a decade now, and people have found both good and bad about them. Subjects such as this have been discussed in great detail.

Personally, I choose, for a variety of reasons, to not have firearms with integral locks.

But that's just me.

Again, welcome to TFL.
 
Can someone explain what the MIM parts are? If I purchase a new No Lock j frame, will it have the MIM parts?
 
So let me get this straight.

I get attacked or face some sort of life or death situation that would involve me employing a firearm.

So I draw my gun
Pull out my keys
Find the Smith handcuff key
Unlock my revolver
Drop my keys
Take a proper grip
And
Get beaten to death with my own gun by the person who has since taken it from me after looking at me confused for 2 minutes as I fumble with my gun.

Lord and to think of all those folks who get their knickers in a twist over unloaded chamber carry. This thread might give them a stroke. :)

As for the lock itself or any integrated lock I do see utility in them should one desire to use them. Say in an event you cannot property secure the arm and cannot carry it etc.

I own 2 smiths with locks and honestly it’s kinda nice shooting them without worrying about damaging their value vs all my pre lock stuff. They are both 627PC guns and shoot wonderfully and I have had no problems. I think the lock is another unneeded component that can and has failed but honestly I think it’s failures are probably as likely as any component failing. The issue is those other components are actually needed for function.

In a perfect world the lock would be optional as I do believe there are folks who could derive utility from it.

As to carrying a loaded gun locked?????? Ummmm yeah.......I’d prefer a something larger and heavier as my blunt force weapon.
 
MIM stands for metal injection molding. It is basically a super heated metal powder that is formed in a mold. The argument is that it is much less robust then forged steel. When done properly it makes for very precise, strong parts. When done improperly it snaps in half.

Most of the time it is used in parts like hammers or triggers.

Almost every major manufacturer uses MIM parts for cost reasons and they are largely very good quality. They do not match forged steel however and cannot be used in all applications.

All new Smith’s use MIM parts. As do just about everybody else this side of $1500.00
 
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I am a fan of MIM in modern,well made firearms for the record. When used properly it doesn't dimish anything but cost.

JR2017, welcome to the forum. You will soon find that there are folks here that cover the gun owning spectrum. We all have opinions, and are perfectly willing to share them.

As you can see your opinion of having a carry weapon with a lock that must be opened before it can be used flies in the face of self-defense doctrine. I recommend getting some training in self-defense with a handgun from an experienced professional. You will soon realize that while you may be smart, you don't have a clue of what you don't know. Your opinion on this subject is not based on knowledge and has no value here. Good luck.
 
OK, I will have to vote a very loud HELL NO! to carrying a gun locked with an internal lock. If your that concerned about a gun being taken away from you then you either need to not carry or think about a higher level of retention holster. A good level 3 holster should help keep it from easily being taken out of your holster with out you knowing it. I also suggest you paying more attention to your surroundings, situation awareness is very important and will help keep you from even being in a potential mugging. I will agree that some professional training may be in order, it may help you get a bigger view of the picture.
 
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Wow....finally a good use for that S&W perverted internal lock. I tried it with the key located on a chain hung around my neck and everything went smoothly and lightning fast.

I feel really safe now.
 
You would be better served defending yourself with a knife than a useless locked gun. A locked firearm is next to useless for self defense. Although, my N Frame would make a heck of a club, but only after expending all 8 rounds.
 
In a revolver with a locking device, the gun was/is not intended to be carried with the lock engaged, for whatever reason. The lock is intended to be engaged when the gun is stored or is not in the immediate custody of the lawful owner.

If your training/experience does not extend to keeping proper custody and control of your firearm, it might be better to not carry a gun at all and simply avoid trouble, a quite effective way of preventing the need for a gun in the first place.

P.S. Forget the knife; knife fighting is a separate skill, demanding a high degree of physical and mental preparation. The amateur knife-fighter is going to end up in at least as bad a shape as the amateur gun fighter.

Jim
 
Hahahahahahahaha!

That is very funny. I LOLed for a few minutes, literally.

I will assume this is a troll and move on, I really hope no one would ever consider such silliness.

Welcome to the forum though, can't wait for your second post.
 
Please consider the value of a properly functioning internal lock as additional protection for you and your family.

I have carefully considered it, and the value of a properly functioning internal lock to me and my family, and it is ZERO!

The actual use of a lock on carry gun moves it from zero to a huge negative value.

The main factor is time, and while getting the key, putting the tiny little key in the tiny little hole and unlocking your gun is simple and easy when you do it in an unstressed situation, doing under the extreme stress of a life and death confrontation is a COMPLETELY different matter.
you can quickly unlock your firearm and place it in your hand in an appropriately concealed manner,

You can do this, of course, but I find it to be a singularly bad idea.
What is an "appropriately concealed manner" when you have a gun in your hand?? In your pocket?? That has a number of drawbacks, not the least of which is if you need to aim, vs shoot through your pocket.

Walking through that "bad environment" with a gun in your hand might just result in your arrest as "brandishing a firearm" charges could easily be brought, and very likely sustained. Or worse yet, police responding to a "man with a gun" report are quite likely to shoot you.

Another point to consider about carrying a locked gun is who is with you. That locked gun that would be useless to an assailant who takes it from you is ALSO useless to your spouse, family member, or friend who might be with you.

It is a laudable concept, a firearm that can only be used by the authorized user, BUT it is also a serious risk that must be weighed, if you are in a situation where others might need to be able to use your gun, and you cannot. Yes, the ability of the person with you to get your gun and successfully use it is another question, but if your gun is locked, the question becomes moot, turning into one of "could they find your key, and use it in time to do any good?"

And yes, many times the mere sight of a gun is enough to deter an attack, but what about the times when it isn't? A locked loaded gun is an impact weapon, at best. I can think of no situation where carrying a locked gun that requires a key to unlock is a good idea.
 
A few years ago, when the gun lock debate was hot in congress, a gun club added an event to their IDPA match.

CoF. Place handgun in drawer. On signal, recover gun and engage target.

String 1: Gun loaded and in safe ready condition with manual safety engaged or hammer decocked or just sitting there, depending on action type.
Typical time, about 3 seconds.

String 2: Gun unloaded with trigger guard lock. Key on keyring with other keys, ammo in drawer with gun.
Typical time, 36 seconds.

They sent the results to their representative: "Do you want to give a home invader an extra half minute to do his worst?"

So unless the OP is precognitive, or just superhumanly observant, I suggest he rethink carrying a locked weapon.
 
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