In general, I like the springs to remain "full power". However, some revolvers have spring tension that's not conducive to accuracy. In that case, IMHO, the strain screw can be reasonably shortened and the revolver will remain reliable. I did have a friend - former bullseye competitor and career law enforcement - who lightened his too much and lost score points at the academy; enabled me to shoot a record score, by the way.
S&W Hammer Spring
- Thread starter arquebus357
- Start date
arquebus357
New member
S&W revolver springs revisited.
Did some work on my 64-3 (subject of this thread). Replaced an ugly sear which was a replacement and was poorly fit. Not sure why they call this piece a sear. I also replaced the trigger rebound spring with a Wolff 14# one.
When in single action mode and the hammer cocked, the rebound spring is resisting your trigger pull. When you lighten that spring your single action trigger pull becomes magical.
Did some work on my 64-3 (subject of this thread). Replaced an ugly sear which was a replacement and was poorly fit. Not sure why they call this piece a sear. I also replaced the trigger rebound spring with a Wolff 14# one.
When in single action mode and the hammer cocked, the rebound spring is resisting your trigger pull. When you lighten that spring your single action trigger pull becomes magical.
arquebus357
New member
^^^^^
Yes it does. Except it's not a matter of "going too far" . The trigger now returns with less authority than it did with the factory rebound spring. This doesn't seem to have an adverse effect. I will need to test at the range. I have three more, stiffer, Wolff springs to play with.
Actually, the trigger return now feels much more like my Ruger Security Six.
Yes it does. Except it's not a matter of "going too far" . The trigger now returns with less authority than it did with the factory rebound spring. This doesn't seem to have an adverse effect. I will need to test at the range. I have three more, stiffer, Wolff springs to play with.
Actually, the trigger return now feels much more like my Ruger Security Six.
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Mike Irwin
Staff
" In that case, IMHO, the strain screw can be reasonably shortened and the revolver will remain reliable."
Define reasonable.
How FAR can you shorten the screw BEFORE you end up with a knuckling main spring and ignition issues?
If you do shorten the screw too much, what's your option then? Normally it's a dead gun until you can find a new strain screw.
That's a fantastic option. Not.
That's why aftermarket reduced power springs are commonly available today, so you don't have to play "chimp with a rock."
Define reasonable.
How FAR can you shorten the screw BEFORE you end up with a knuckling main spring and ignition issues?
If you do shorten the screw too much, what's your option then? Normally it's a dead gun until you can find a new strain screw.
That's a fantastic option. Not.
That's why aftermarket reduced power springs are commonly available today, so you don't have to play "chimp with a rock."
straightshooterjake
New member
OP, glad you are getting good results with your model 64. There is a lot of good stuff in this thread, and there are a couple of things I want to respond to. I am sorry I missed this thread when it was first active a couple of weeks ago.
Earlier, there was discussion about whether .357 magnum revolvers need greater mainspring tension. Well, the S&W armorer's manual says that they do. In the second post of this thread there is a page from the armorer's manual. In the center top of the page it specifies that the hammer should support 3.25 lbs on a .38 special and 3.5 lbs on a .357. These weights of spring tension are the S&W spec which is intended to be reliable with all factory primers. The issue is that some .357 ammo uses magnum primers, and some magnum primers are harder than small pistol primers. Obviously, if you reload and you use the same primers for both types of ammo, then there is no difference. But if you want to use all types of factory ammo, then greater tension is recommended for .357.
The image in the thread above also shows how to measure the tension on the mainspring with a trigger gauge. This method can make the process of adjusting spring tension much more scientific.
To the OP, I wrote a long article about working with S&W revolver triggers that is intended for people who are getting started with these projects. You are clearly past the beginning point, but I will still offer a link to the article. The article is here:
Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers
And it is also discussed in this thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584772
Good luck with your revolver. You have started down a road which I personally have found quite rewarding.
Earlier, there was discussion about whether .357 magnum revolvers need greater mainspring tension. Well, the S&W armorer's manual says that they do. In the second post of this thread there is a page from the armorer's manual. In the center top of the page it specifies that the hammer should support 3.25 lbs on a .38 special and 3.5 lbs on a .357. These weights of spring tension are the S&W spec which is intended to be reliable with all factory primers. The issue is that some .357 ammo uses magnum primers, and some magnum primers are harder than small pistol primers. Obviously, if you reload and you use the same primers for both types of ammo, then there is no difference. But if you want to use all types of factory ammo, then greater tension is recommended for .357.
The image in the thread above also shows how to measure the tension on the mainspring with a trigger gauge. This method can make the process of adjusting spring tension much more scientific.
To the OP, I wrote a long article about working with S&W revolver triggers that is intended for people who are getting started with these projects. You are clearly past the beginning point, but I will still offer a link to the article. The article is here:
Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers
And it is also discussed in this thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584772
Good luck with your revolver. You have started down a road which I personally have found quite rewarding.
arquebus357
New member
Bookmarked...
Many thanks SSJake
Yes I'm getting better at this. I'm not sitting on a milk crate in the bathtub anymore. When fitting the new sear (still don't know why they call it that) I fashioned a pin with a bit looser fit so I could grind a bit, reinstall and test. It took 5 fittings to get the sear to function properly without being too short.
Many thanks SSJake
Yes I'm getting better at this. I'm not sitting on a milk crate in the bathtub anymore. When fitting the new sear (still don't know why they call it that) I fashioned a pin with a bit looser fit so I could grind a bit, reinstall and test. It took 5 fittings to get the sear to function properly without being too short.
Reducing rebound spring tension, either by clipping coils or installing a much lighter spring, affects trigger return.
Going too far begins to create a situation where the trigger will still return (usually), but does so sluggishly.
In a range toy, as long as you don't have to manually push the trigger forward to re-set position, it may not matter.
In a defensive gun it can, because if you need rapid-fire DA shooting, you can outrun the trigger & you can short-stroke it.
The S&W armorer's class I went to (LE oriented) gave us the minimum number of spring coils recommended by the factory for a duty gun.
When I went through several of our department 64s, I found one rebound slide spring that'd been cut a couple coils too far, and the trigger return was VERY weak.
It was quickly corrected.
That gun was carried by a sergeant who was something of a problem child & he never admitted it, but obviously somebody'd been inside it that thought he was doing some cool stuff in a kitchen-table "action job".
DON'T shorten the strain screw, DON'T back it out & leave it backed out, DON'T take the rebound slide spring down too far.
Those are the wrong ways to go in trying to do "action" jobs.
Denis
Going too far begins to create a situation where the trigger will still return (usually), but does so sluggishly.
In a range toy, as long as you don't have to manually push the trigger forward to re-set position, it may not matter.
In a defensive gun it can, because if you need rapid-fire DA shooting, you can outrun the trigger & you can short-stroke it.
The S&W armorer's class I went to (LE oriented) gave us the minimum number of spring coils recommended by the factory for a duty gun.
When I went through several of our department 64s, I found one rebound slide spring that'd been cut a couple coils too far, and the trigger return was VERY weak.
It was quickly corrected.
That gun was carried by a sergeant who was something of a problem child & he never admitted it, but obviously somebody'd been inside it that thought he was doing some cool stuff in a kitchen-table "action job".
DON'T shorten the strain screw, DON'T back it out & leave it backed out, DON'T take the rebound slide spring down too far.
Those are the wrong ways to go in trying to do "action" jobs.
Denis
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For those "chimp with da rock", hammer and chisel, and Dremil experts right on Wolff's site they state not to change springs on self defense carry guns due to possible reliability issues. Having my revolvers set up for competition and having 6 lb double action trigger pulls involves reloading and using federal primers. The guns will NOT reliably shoot factory ammo. Lighten up the leaf main spring to much and watch the hammer bounce
For those kitchen table gun smiths that would like to look somewhat professional Brownel'ls carries a tool for removing and installing the trigger rebound spring.
For those kitchen table gun smiths that would like to look somewhat professional Brownel'ls carries a tool for removing and installing the trigger rebound spring.Mike Irwin
Staff
All of my defensive revolvers have lightened springs.
But they're also put through the reliability wringer BEFORE I start using them for defensive purposes.
But they're also put through the reliability wringer BEFORE I start using them for defensive purposes.
It's quite possible to lighten springs SOMEWHAT and still maintain reliability across the ammo spectrum, on a duty gun.
The trick lies in knowing how much.
And addressing other areas that also contribute, such as polishing the correct surfaces, adjusting sear engagement, and so on, are ALL part of a good action job that can make quite a difference.
Again- Success there lies in knowing where & how much, and if you don't, best to hand it over to a professional who does.
Action work involves more than just throwing aftermarket springs at a gun.
Denis
The trick lies in knowing how much.
And addressing other areas that also contribute, such as polishing the correct surfaces, adjusting sear engagement, and so on, are ALL part of a good action job that can make quite a difference.
Again- Success there lies in knowing where & how much, and if you don't, best to hand it over to a professional who does.
Action work involves more than just throwing aftermarket springs at a gun.
Denis
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Action work involves more than just throwing aftermarket springs at a gun."
My chimp with a rock keeps telling me that.
That's why there are such phrases as a "full action tuning," vs "replacing springs."
My chimp with a rock keeps telling me that.
That's why there are such phrases as a "full action tuning," vs "replacing springs."
Dpris, Many also have no idea as to where to stone, at what angles and what to leave alone ( like hammer surfaces should never be touched). I recently took a trip through time while reviewing my S&W Armorers school book and personal notes from the seventies, we had a lot of fun building revolvers and were allowed to purchase one of our builds.