S&W 69, L frame 5 shot 44 mag
- Thread starter Ozzieman
- Start date
First, this gun is a .44 Magnum (not .44 Special).
I have one. It’s great. Haven’t put a bunch of loads downrange, but have covered the spectrum – 240s at 730 fps and 325grs at 1,182 fps (and several in between) – all manageable but POI may be problematic.
Anyway, here are some photos, dimensions, loads, and personal observations. The long/thin barrel shank/forcing cone of the 696 .44 Special is evident in the picture below. By the way, has anyone ever seen, or have personal knowledge of a barrel shank/forcing cone failure in a 696 or 396 – not being argumentative, just curious?
629 Mtn Gun weighs 39 oz
M69 L Frame weighs 37 oz
Some M69 Dimensions:
OD of barrel shank is right at .620".
Frame window - height: 1.600"
Frame window - width: 1.820"
Cylinder - outside diameter: 1.560"
Cylinder - wall at narrowest: .600" (this was really hard to measure so it is definitely plus/minus)
Cylinder - length: 1.670"
(The cylinder is 1.670 inches and isn't recessed for cartridge rims -- a 1.712" handload fits, but is right at the face of the cylinder. Lymans No 49 edition shows OAL w their 425421 Keith Bullet is 1.710").
A .429 minus plug gauge will enter all throats a .430 plug will not.
HERE ARE SOME PICTURES:
.
M69 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
M696 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone Area:
.
.
629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
Family Portrait - 629 Mtn Gun, M696, New M69:
.
.
Sorry about the "so-so" pictures -- light wasn't the best and I'm not the best photographer.
What a neat little package.
FIRST RANGE SESSION:
I was in a hurry, hands were cold, light going fast, and the wind was blowing, so I didn't get to do as much testing as I wanted to. Will get to it soon.
The loads were:
240gr SWC Lasercast (.431)seated to 1.500" OAL and crimped lightly over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and Winchester WLP primers.
5.6gr of HP 38 (Vel: 739 fps)
10.6gr of HS6 (Vel: 1,035 fps)
9.4 gr of Longshot (Vel: 1,078 fps)
265gr SWCGC (429244) (.429) seated deep and crimped over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and WLPs.
16.9gr A2400 (Vel: 1,142 fps)
When seated deep (as was done here), this load will run right at 1,200 fps from a 6" barrel.
Federal Factory 240gr JHP (No. 44A) Vel: 1,217 fps
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter.
.
.
.
Couple of observations:
For me, while very comfortable feeling, the grip panels that come with the gun aren't comfortable under heavy recoil (shouldn't be a problem in the field). I'll probably mount some of the S&W 500 Hogues for longer bench sessions to test heavier loads.
Looks like this gun was sighted in at the factory with .44 Special ammo.
The rear sight has some room to move the POI down, but may need a higher front sight.
I was real pleased with the limited test targets.
That Fed Factory load looks to have excellent accuracy potential.
Recoil with the 265gr SWCGC/16.9 A2400 and the 240gr Fed Factory load were the same and would not be abusive with proper fitting (to the individual) grips. We'll see what it's like with some 305s and 325s.
SECOND RANGE SESSION – CHRONOGRAPHING ONLY:
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
Replaced the factory grips with the Hogue 500s (see 629 photo above).
Didn't shoot any groups but ran some loads over the chronograph.
Chrono 5 long paces from muzzle and temp was about 45 deg f., 5 shots except for 240gr Fed Factory, and 325gr WLNGC (both 3 shots):
Bullet make, OAL, cases and primers shown above
240gr, 9.4gr Longshot, ... 1,078 fps avg, 18 fps ES.
240gr, 10.6gr HS6, ....... 1,035 fps avg, 24 fps ES.
265gr, 16.9gr A2400,...... 1,142 fps avg, 37 fps ES.
240gr, Federal Fact, ..... 1,216 fps avg, 12 fps ES
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES
310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES
325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
The Hogue 500s worked great making this gun comfortable to shoot with the heavier loads. I have a problem with grips that are hard or narrow at the top (or both) -- recoil just hammers the bone at the base of my thumb -- the Hogue 500s pretty much solve this problem for me.
Didn't shot any targets, so can't comment on POI of the heavier bullets.
The 300s were not bad at all recoil wise -- but was noticeable and the 325gr/1,180fps was a bit more so. Certainly won’t shoot many of these.
THIRD RANGE SESSION – JUST SHOOTING:
Yesterday, I shot 65 rounds of 6.0gr Win Super Target under the 240gr Lasercast (seated to 1.510 OAL) in Starline cases and lit by Win Large Pistol primers. What a pleasant load – probably running 850 fps or a bit more. Didn’t shoot on paper or chronograph – will do that another day.
CONCLUSION:
Fitted with the Hogue 500s, FOR ME, it is comfortable to shoot with any and all loads likely to be used. Again, FOR ME, it is the ideal handgun - reasonable weight, portable size, good balance, good accuracy (so far), and sufficient caliber.
I plan on both shooting and carrying this gun a lot, and won’t baby it. Will find out how well it holds up over time.
Hope this gives a bit better picture of what the new S&W M69 is or might be.
FWIW,
Paul
I have one. It’s great. Haven’t put a bunch of loads downrange, but have covered the spectrum – 240s at 730 fps and 325grs at 1,182 fps (and several in between) – all manageable but POI may be problematic.
Anyway, here are some photos, dimensions, loads, and personal observations. The long/thin barrel shank/forcing cone of the 696 .44 Special is evident in the picture below. By the way, has anyone ever seen, or have personal knowledge of a barrel shank/forcing cone failure in a 696 or 396 – not being argumentative, just curious?
629 Mtn Gun weighs 39 oz
M69 L Frame weighs 37 oz
Some M69 Dimensions:
OD of barrel shank is right at .620".
Frame window - height: 1.600"
Frame window - width: 1.820"
Cylinder - outside diameter: 1.560"
Cylinder - wall at narrowest: .600" (this was really hard to measure so it is definitely plus/minus)
Cylinder - length: 1.670"
(The cylinder is 1.670 inches and isn't recessed for cartridge rims -- a 1.712" handload fits, but is right at the face of the cylinder. Lymans No 49 edition shows OAL w their 425421 Keith Bullet is 1.710").
A .429 minus plug gauge will enter all throats a .430 plug will not.
HERE ARE SOME PICTURES:
.
M69 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
M696 Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone Area:
.
.
629 Mtn Gun Barrel Shank/Forcing Cone area:
.
.
Family Portrait - 629 Mtn Gun, M696, New M69:
.
.
Sorry about the "so-so" pictures -- light wasn't the best and I'm not the best photographer.
What a neat little package.
FIRST RANGE SESSION:
I was in a hurry, hands were cold, light going fast, and the wind was blowing, so I didn't get to do as much testing as I wanted to. Will get to it soon.
The loads were:
240gr SWC Lasercast (.431)seated to 1.500" OAL and crimped lightly over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and Winchester WLP primers.
5.6gr of HP 38 (Vel: 739 fps)
10.6gr of HS6 (Vel: 1,035 fps)
9.4 gr of Longshot (Vel: 1,078 fps)
265gr SWCGC (429244) (.429) seated deep and crimped over the front drive band. Multi-x Starline cases and WLPs.
16.9gr A2400 (Vel: 1,142 fps)
When seated deep (as was done here), this load will run right at 1,200 fps from a 6" barrel.
Federal Factory 240gr JHP (No. 44A) Vel: 1,217 fps
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter.
.
.
.
Couple of observations:
For me, while very comfortable feeling, the grip panels that come with the gun aren't comfortable under heavy recoil (shouldn't be a problem in the field). I'll probably mount some of the S&W 500 Hogues for longer bench sessions to test heavier loads.
Looks like this gun was sighted in at the factory with .44 Special ammo.
The rear sight has some room to move the POI down, but may need a higher front sight.
I was real pleased with the limited test targets.
That Fed Factory load looks to have excellent accuracy potential.
Recoil with the 265gr SWCGC/16.9 A2400 and the 240gr Fed Factory load were the same and would not be abusive with proper fitting (to the individual) grips. We'll see what it's like with some 305s and 325s.
SECOND RANGE SESSION – CHRONOGRAPHING ONLY:
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
Replaced the factory grips with the Hogue 500s (see 629 photo above).
Didn't shoot any groups but ran some loads over the chronograph.
Chrono 5 long paces from muzzle and temp was about 45 deg f., 5 shots except for 240gr Fed Factory, and 325gr WLNGC (both 3 shots):
Bullet make, OAL, cases and primers shown above
240gr, 9.4gr Longshot, ... 1,078 fps avg, 18 fps ES.
240gr, 10.6gr HS6, ....... 1,035 fps avg, 24 fps ES.
265gr, 16.9gr A2400,...... 1,142 fps avg, 37 fps ES.
240gr, Federal Fact, ..... 1,216 fps avg, 12 fps ES
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES
310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES
325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.
The Hogue 500s worked great making this gun comfortable to shoot with the heavier loads. I have a problem with grips that are hard or narrow at the top (or both) -- recoil just hammers the bone at the base of my thumb -- the Hogue 500s pretty much solve this problem for me.
Didn't shot any targets, so can't comment on POI of the heavier bullets.
The 300s were not bad at all recoil wise -- but was noticeable and the 325gr/1,180fps was a bit more so. Certainly won’t shoot many of these.
THIRD RANGE SESSION – JUST SHOOTING:
Yesterday, I shot 65 rounds of 6.0gr Win Super Target under the 240gr Lasercast (seated to 1.510 OAL) in Starline cases and lit by Win Large Pistol primers. What a pleasant load – probably running 850 fps or a bit more. Didn’t shoot on paper or chronograph – will do that another day.
CONCLUSION:
Fitted with the Hogue 500s, FOR ME, it is comfortable to shoot with any and all loads likely to be used. Again, FOR ME, it is the ideal handgun - reasonable weight, portable size, good balance, good accuracy (so far), and sufficient caliber.
I plan on both shooting and carrying this gun a lot, and won’t baby it. Will find out how well it holds up over time.
Hope this gives a bit better picture of what the new S&W M69 is or might be.
FWIW,
Paul
aarondhgraham
New member
Am I the only one who likes half lug frames?
Am I the only one who likes half lug frames?
I think the revolver is very pleasing to the eye just as it is.
Am I going out to buy one?,,,
Nope.
Would I toss it if someone gifted me one?,,,
Oh heck no!
Many people have fired my 629 and wished the frame were a bit smaller,,,
This new offering looks like it will fill that desire very nicely.
But why does the cylinder release look like a Taurus?
Aarond
.
Am I the only one who likes half lug frames?
I think the revolver is very pleasing to the eye just as it is.
Am I going out to buy one?,,,
Nope.
Would I toss it if someone gifted me one?,,,
Oh heck no!
Many people have fired my 629 and wished the frame were a bit smaller,,,
This new offering looks like it will fill that desire very nicely.
But why does the cylinder release look like a Taurus?
Aarond
.
@ Paul - Awesome information!
My pet .44mag load is 17.3gr of A2400 under a Hornady .430" swaged lead SWCHP bullet using a standard LPP.
It shoots mild and I "guestimated" it's velocity at the high end of the 1100 something fps. out of my 4" barreled M29.
That load was actually worked up for my Winchester Trapper.
I'd used a big dose of Unique - but - that was too hot and blew by the base of the bullet and caused a lot of leading & the bullet to tumble.
The 2400 burns slower and cooler and works very, very, very well.
Anyhow - I'm really wanting this gun (M69) now.
I'll have to check out the price for having the barrel cut back and the hammer bobbed.
My pet .44mag load is 17.3gr of A2400 under a Hornady .430" swaged lead SWCHP bullet using a standard LPP.
It shoots mild and I "guestimated" it's velocity at the high end of the 1100 something fps. out of my 4" barreled M29.
That load was actually worked up for my Winchester Trapper.
I'd used a big dose of Unique - but - that was too hot and blew by the base of the bullet and caused a lot of leading & the bullet to tumble.
The 2400 burns slower and cooler and works very, very, very well.
Anyhow - I'm really wanting this gun (M69) now.
I'll have to check out the price for having the barrel cut back and the hammer bobbed.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Thanks for the info! I have been trying to convince the boss (ahem) that this is a worthy gun to protect us when we go into the country. But I just want it.
Glenn
Glenn
jglsprings
New member
Wow! Thanks Paul! That was a great post.
Now for the unanswered question...
WHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU FIND ONE????!!!!!
I hope there are two more there. One for me, then Glenn can have the last one.
Thanks again for the great post!
jason_iowa
New member
As much I would like to own 1 of each 44mag out there this one just is not going to make the cut for me.
It looks like a fine revolver just does not fit the bill for me. I would rather see a 7 shot on an X frame although I don't know that it would fit. I'm sure someone here would know.
It looks like a fine revolver just does not fit the bill for me. I would rather see a 7 shot on an X frame although I don't know that it would fit. I'm sure someone here would know.
hmmm basically sw made a l frame 44 magnum that has the longevity of a charter arms 44 special revolver if used alot with 44 mag ammo. And the structural issues that limit you to the same cartridges as the taurus tracker in 44 magnum.. Hmmm at least the tracker runs with lots of normal 44 magnum ammo
"hmmm basically sw made a l frame 44 magnum that has the longevity of a charter arms 44 special revolver if used alot with 44 mag ammo. And the structural issues that limit you to the same cartridges as the taurus tracker in 44 magnum.. Hmmm at least the tracker runs with lots of normal 44 magnum ammo"
I have a Tracker, and the forcing cone on the M69 is thicker than on the Tracker. So you have already acquired a M69 and determined that it has a short service life?
I really like the concept of the M69, and if in the market for a hiking gun this would be a solid choice for me. The N frames are just a bit big to be comfortable in my hands. However with a M329PD and a Tracker Titanium 41Mag already in the stable, both of those beat the M69 in weight. I'm in the market for a target 44 but the 629 classic 5" is a better choice for that.
I have a Tracker, and the forcing cone on the M69 is thicker than on the Tracker. So you have already acquired a M69 and determined that it has a short service life?
I really like the concept of the M69, and if in the market for a hiking gun this would be a solid choice for me. The N frames are just a bit big to be comfortable in my hands. However with a M329PD and a Tracker Titanium 41Mag already in the stable, both of those beat the M69 in weight. I'm in the market for a target 44 but the 629 classic 5" is a better choice for that.
