S&W 642 or Kahr PM9
- Thread starter tdgator
- Start date
My Kahr PM-9 has been flawless even through the break in period they strongly require, don't let people put you off. I have a J-frame .38 I was given, but if I were to buy one id probably go with a .357 just to have the option of shooting .38's and carrying .357's.
Either make great carry pieces, for for pocket I'd stick to the Kahr, its lighter,smaller, and slimmer.
Either make great carry pieces, for for pocket I'd stick to the Kahr, its lighter,smaller, and slimmer.
orionengnr
New member
Not by me, they're not. And not by a number of others who carry and entrust their lives to their PM9s daily.
Tiny, bland and squared off, yes. Unreliable? You've got to be kidding. Why would I carry an unreliable pistol? My PM9 has several thousand trouble-free rounds, and probably 20-25% of them are premium +p or +p+ carry rounds.
Have, had, both.
When the PM9 worked, it shot like a dream, great night sights, flatter carry with more rounds, slightly heavier. Now the bad, it was never cured of it's failure to go into battery from time to time; and suffered from the usual, slide release lever, don't rack, to load (Khar's service cure!). Despite all the PM9's attributes, I carry a S&W snubby; reliability is paramount to a self-defense gun.
When the PM9 worked, it shot like a dream, great night sights, flatter carry with more rounds, slightly heavier. Now the bad, it was never cured of it's failure to go into battery from time to time; and suffered from the usual, slide release lever, don't rack, to load (Khar's service cure!). Despite all the PM9's attributes, I carry a S&W snubby; reliability is paramount to a self-defense gun.
2cooltoolz
New member
I alternate carry between my PM9 and my 442 (black 642).
The S&W is a tiny bit larger but has a more organic shape, which makes it seem to print less, both in pocket and IWB. I carry it mostly close to home, as when walking the dogs around the lake, loaded usually with two shotshells and 3 JHP's alternately. Around here I'm more worried about slithery or 4 legged adversaries than someone who might shoot back.
Most of the time, especially when going into hostile territory (you know, the grocery store and stuff) I carry the Kahr with 6+1 Gold Dots and a reload. I like the extra rounds, plus have more confidence in the 9x19 over the .38.
I did have some FTF's in the break in period (about 5 in the first 500 rounds) but none since; up to about a thousand and I feel I can point and hit better and more quickly with the Kahr, though that's pretty subjective. In slow fire there is no comparison; the Kahr is way more accurate.
The Kahr is also more pleasant to shoot, though neither is exactly fun after a box of shells or so. Even with standard pressure rounds the Airweight feels like a firecracker in your hand. You don't notice it as quickly with the Kahr, but after a while you feel every single stipple on the grip.
I really appreciate the value and function of both guns and plan to always keep both, but if I had to choose one...it would be the Kahr.
The S&W is a tiny bit larger but has a more organic shape, which makes it seem to print less, both in pocket and IWB. I carry it mostly close to home, as when walking the dogs around the lake, loaded usually with two shotshells and 3 JHP's alternately. Around here I'm more worried about slithery or 4 legged adversaries than someone who might shoot back.
Most of the time, especially when going into hostile territory (you know, the grocery store and stuff) I carry the Kahr with 6+1 Gold Dots and a reload. I like the extra rounds, plus have more confidence in the 9x19 over the .38.
I did have some FTF's in the break in period (about 5 in the first 500 rounds) but none since; up to about a thousand and I feel I can point and hit better and more quickly with the Kahr, though that's pretty subjective. In slow fire there is no comparison; the Kahr is way more accurate.
The Kahr is also more pleasant to shoot, though neither is exactly fun after a box of shells or so. Even with standard pressure rounds the Airweight feels like a firecracker in your hand. You don't notice it as quickly with the Kahr, but after a while you feel every single stipple on the grip.
I really appreciate the value and function of both guns and plan to always keep both, but if I had to choose one...it would be the Kahr.
LightningJoe
New member
I wish there were a definitive answer to this. I know the 642 is rock-solid. But I also know it will experience a serious stoppage after five rounds. Even a jammamatic POS semi-auto can usually make it through five rounds before it hiccups.
9mm has more oomph than .38 Special, but good LSWCHPs are hard to beat in gelatin, at least. Foot-pounds don't equal stopping power.
You can carry speed-loaders for your snub-nose, but magazines are much more carryable (and much less likely to drop all your rounds on the floor when your hands are shaking).
The Kahr looks kind of stupid (subjective, I know). The snub-nose looks much cooler. More importantly, the snub really looks like business from the front end. Drunks and dopeheads might not care, but everyone else will take your snub-nose seriously (they're looking at five LSWCHPs). The Kahr might look like a lady's bedroom gun by comparison.
If you whacked a guy on the head with your Kahr, he might not notice, but if you whacked him on the head with your snub-nose, he'd be seeing stars.
I don't claim to know the answer myself. There probably is no answer. But I lean toward the snub-nose.
9mm has more oomph than .38 Special, but good LSWCHPs are hard to beat in gelatin, at least. Foot-pounds don't equal stopping power.
You can carry speed-loaders for your snub-nose, but magazines are much more carryable (and much less likely to drop all your rounds on the floor when your hands are shaking).
The Kahr looks kind of stupid (subjective, I know). The snub-nose looks much cooler. More importantly, the snub really looks like business from the front end. Drunks and dopeheads might not care, but everyone else will take your snub-nose seriously (they're looking at five LSWCHPs). The Kahr might look like a lady's bedroom gun by comparison.
If you whacked a guy on the head with your Kahr, he might not notice, but if you whacked him on the head with your snub-nose, he'd be seeing stars.
I don't claim to know the answer myself. There probably is no answer. But I lean toward the snub-nose.
Thanks folks. I just shot both guns yesterday. Decent with the 642, but good groups with the PM9. It was cold out (me being a pansy FL boy) and the 642 stung a little. The PM9 was smooth and felt good. I am really concerned with the reliability factor of the PM9, otherwise it would be a no-brainer. The positive replies are helping though. I suck at decisions.
orionengnr
New member
Some early Kahr PM9s had problems (mine among them) but Kahr addressed the problems quickly and satisfactorily.
If you get the opportunity, shoot both.
There is no comparison for me. I will freely admit to being biased, but my bias was formed by my experience.
If you get the opportunity, shoot both.
There is no comparison for me. I will freely admit to being biased, but my bias was formed by my experience.
My serial number is NOT one of the guns that was in the recall.
Which load, 115 or 124 did you settle on, Orion?
By the way your note on the lack of the 'autolock' on the Kahr gave me a good laugh.
My 'value meter' put the Kahr at around 500 dollars. Kahr's MSRP was 700-800, which pegs another meter I have, that wouldn't let me purchase one.
s
Which load, 115 or 124 did you settle on, Orion?
By the way your note on the lack of the 'autolock' on the Kahr gave me a good laugh.
My 'value meter' put the Kahr at around 500 dollars. Kahr's MSRP was 700-800, which pegs another meter I have, that wouldn't let me purchase one.
s
2cooltoolz
New member
never mind
I've shot the Kahr along with Kel-Tec's and other similar sized pocket automatics, and decided ultimately that I prefer the revolver for a pocket sized gun. In addition to the reasons already mentioned, I prefer the 642 for pocket carry because: 1) It can be used at contact distance whereas an autoloader at contact might be pushed out of battery, and 2) It can be fired through a jacket or coat pocket if need be, whereas an autoloader might not cycle if used in this manner. I just trust more the reliability and also simplicity of the 5-shot revolver as a pocket piece.
Speed strips level the playing field quite a bit IMO. They carry as easily as a magazine, and can be used at an acceptable speed with practice.
I don't have a PM9 or S&W 642, but I do have a Kahr MK9 and I carry it everyday in a pocket holster. It came with 4 mags and 2 holsters and i've put about 600rds of WWB thru it useing all4 mags without any failures period. I normally carry the 6+1 in the Kahr and an extra 7rd mag reload. I trust this gun with my life everyday and don't feel under gunned at all. As in Florida it can get hot here in the DFW area and the MK9 has held up without any finish problems.
I agree. I looked at the CW 40. Only in Kali do we pay over new gun prices for used guns. The ones I looked at at Canyon Sports had 550 dollar price tags on them.
The CW 40 I ordered from Bud's, but couldn't buy was 353., since it's now off the Kali 'drop test' list. If you check, in 11 months NO semi-auto pistols have passed the 'test'.
So, it's buy now, or, live with what's in the state, and pay premium prices.
Anyway, the CW9mm just isn't small enough to justify switching from the 360PD.
Still didn't get an answer on the trigger on the 642, and, if it was as bad as the 360.
The PM9mm IS small enough to justify moving from the 360, 642 sized guns...
The CW 40 I ordered from Bud's, but couldn't buy was 353., since it's now off the Kali 'drop test' list. If you check, in 11 months NO semi-auto pistols have passed the 'test'.
So, it's buy now, or, live with what's in the state, and pay premium prices.
Anyway, the CW9mm just isn't small enough to justify switching from the 360PD.
Still didn't get an answer on the trigger on the 642, and, if it was as bad as the 360.
The PM9mm IS small enough to justify moving from the 360, 642 sized guns...