S&W 640 649 or 642 with lazer grips?

S

SteelToe

New member
Okay so I have narrowed my choices down to these three.

S&W 640 357 (fully internal hammer)

S&W 649 357 (shrouded hammer for single action option)

S&W 642 38 special +p (fully internal hammer double action only) BUT IT HAS A LAZER! :)

The gun will be carried daily in my pocket for self defense. I had been hard set on 357 for calibur but planned on perhaps carrying 38 special +p anyway. I just liked the option to shoot 357. Hmmm is 38 special +p a good self defense round? Say compared to a 357 mag and a 9mm.

I know all the variables and don't want to start a debate. Just asking peoples personal opinions on 38 special +p vs 9mm and 357 mag.

Also the 642 is only 15 ounces!

Thanks all!
 
S&w 640

I have a S&W 640 with Crimson Trace grips and it works very well. My wife picked it out for herself about 3 years ago and we replaced the stock grips about a year later.She rarely pulls it out of the safe but I take it out often ,shoot it on occasion and keep it clean.I keep it loaded with Federal 38+P and it is very accurate.I have fired 357 rounds through it but it doesn't need all that.If I want to play with the 357's I'll pull out the Mod 28 or the Python.I pull out the Moss 500 nightly ,without fail.
 
I don't get much of a thrill buying a gun I can't use long at the range so anything 15 oz is no deal. I got the SP101 2" DAO a couple of weeks ago and it's my favorite gun. The weight keeps the recoil down and I'm super accurate with it. Single or DAO? It depends on how you like to shoot and which you really prefer. If you want to try single once and awhile and not give up the DAO advantages, the 649 is the best of both worlds. Either the 649 or 640 will work better than the 642 as you can at least practice and enjoy the gun through a couple of boxes or more. Can't say that for the airweight....
 
hmmm

Alot to think about and very good points. The reason the 15 oz appealed is pocket carry. I know the other two are not all that much hevier though. What I really need to figure out is how often if ever will I want to put 357 mag through a gun this size. If I am just going to use 38 special +P I might as well get the one that throws in the nice lazer grips. Would 38 special +p kick like mad in the 15 ounce? I have never shot a 38 special +p or 357. Biggest hand gun I have shot is a 45 auto.
 
I have a LS36 which is 20 oz and I prefer wadcutters, not 38s through this gun; hurts like a mule. Neither the 649/640 at 23 oz will be painful with .38 special but it will get your attention if you don't hold the gun tight...as I learned Saturday. :o
 
eh?

I have a LS36 which is 20 oz and I prefer wadcutters, not 38s through this gun; hurts like a mule.
Click to expand...


What is a wadcutter and you are saying the 38s hurt like a mule? This is not even 38 special or +p and not anywhere close to 357 mag? Wow I had no idea it kicks that hard! So the 15 oz 38 special +p would kick and hurt super bad?
 
I chose the 640. Even though I can shoot .357, I will probably carry .38 Spec +P. Refer to this thread on why.

I'm also looking for a Ruger SP101 3" for the times when I want to conceal a .357 and have the luxury of bulkier clothes to conceal under.

jmm
 
grim

Grim I read the thread you linked. I am thinking 38 special +p is the way to go plus that oen comes with lazer grips. Would a 38 special + p coming out of a 15 oz gun kick as hard as the 357 you described? I love that it comes with the lazer and the light weight for pocket carry. Is there that big of a difrence in kick between a 15 oz and a 23 oz? I am not totally worried about it but I do not want to have bloody hands like you described in the other post. But that was 357. hmmmmm


I am fairly set now on the 38 special +p 15 oz lazer grip S&W 642

anyone have bad stories to tell?
 
Steeltoe....

Let's put things in persepective here. I'll use a comparison between a Model 649 - 23oz stainless steel .38/.357 and a 15oz Model 042 .38 special.

.38 Special Standard Pressure loads; (see footnote)
649 - 125gr JHP/850fps - Recoil about 5.2 ft-lbs
042 - 125gr JHP/850fps - Recoil about 7.95 ft-lbs
649 - 148gr WC/710fps - Recoil about 5.1 ft-lbs (match load wadcutter)
042 - 148gr WC/710fps - Recoil about 7.6 ft-lbs (match load wadcutter)
649 - 158gr JHP/755fps - Recoil close to 6.1
042 - 158gr JHP/755fps - Recoil about 9.4 ft-lbs

.38 Special +P loads:
649 - 125gr JHP/945fps - Recoil about 6.0 ft-lbs
042 - 125gr JHP/945fps - Recoil about 9.2 ft-lbs
649 - 158gr JHP/890fps - Recoil about 7.7 ft.lbs
042 - 158gr JHP/890fps - Recoil about 11.9 ft-lbs

.357 Magnum
649 - 110gr JHP/1295fps - Recoil about 6.5 ft-lbs
649 - 125gr JHP/1450fps - Recoil about 11.5 ft-lbs
649 - 158gr JHP/1235fps - Recoil about 12.9 ft-lbs
Footnote:
All velocities as advertised by Winchester's website out of a longer test barrel. Actual velocities & recoil forces will be lower. However the ratios of recoil forces should be valid for comparison purposes.

What becomes apparent is that when you move into .38 +P loads, the lightweight guns will feel like you're firing a .357 Magnum. The lighter gun is about 1/3 lighter and you'll feel about 1/3 more recoil.

Most shooters can harness a 125gr JHP .357 Magnum round in a standard revolver once they get used to the flash, noise and concussion a Magnum produces.

The problem with most snubbies however is that their "round butt" grips, short barrels and lighter weight make controlling the sudden movement of the gun in your grip more difficult.

With my 649, shooting +P ammo is fun. Shooting 125gr JHP .357 Magnums is tolerable. Shooting the 158gr .357 Magnums, while not painful, gets mighty uncomfrotable. The 158gr .357 load usually forces the muzzle up against my grip along with a very stout shove. But mostly, with the .357 Mags it's a case of noise & shockwaves when firing at indoor ranges.

I would not want to fire the 158gr .357 loads in a 15-16oz lightweight gun.

When firing in the all-steel 649....
A box of .38 +P's -- fine, now let's fire the 1911.
A box of .357 125gr -- okay, I'm ready for the 1911...in a few minutes.
A box of .357 158gr -- I'm done, let's go eat.

By the way, a "Wadcutter" is a cylindrical shaped bullet - no tapered nose and it's seated flush with the mouth of the case. Fired at low speeds, these are target-loads and about the mildest shooting loads that are accurate. The cylinder shape punches clean circles in your target for competition scoring.
 
o my

THANK YOU for all that great in depth info. It helped me a lot to understand but at the same time made me second guess my thoughts on the 38 special 642 :) I think the biggest thing leaning me toward the 642 is the lazer grips aat such a savings. The grips alone are over $200. I would still like the option to shoot 357 mag if I want to. Seems that the more a gun can do the better. Maybe the 649 then. Hmmmm Also the 649 would have single action capabilities as well. Well shoot! I just dont know. Right now it is dead lock between 649 and 642. 640 is out cause it is double action only and has no lazer ;)

O man hmmmm
 
You could always do the motto of the Beretta forum - "When in doubt, just buy both." :) You'll play more with the 640 but if you only want to carry, the 642 will do. I like to have fun with a gun, not just carry and sometimes shoot.
 
My 649-2 (.38+p rated) is the nicest little .38 I've ever owned. Easy to shoot, easy to carry and dead reliable. Accurate in double action and plenty of use has smoothed it out to perfection. One of the few guns I can't see ever getting rid of. I see no use to shoot a .357 snubby with .357 ammo. you sacrifice too much in follow up shots and all around "shootability".

My .02 at least. Can't go wrong with a bodyguard!!!! I have owned a couple of 642's, always go back to the stainless snubbys. they will outlive us all if we take care of them, can't say that aluminum gives me that same warm and fuzzy feeling...

CANIS
 
.38 +P is quite adequate for SD. Yes, .357 will stop an attacker more effectively, but recoil, noise and flash make it hard to use, especially in closed places and at night.
Lasers are fine range toys, but on 642 it seems to me weird. With the barrel length less then 2", you'll shoot effectively on 15 yards at best. It's enough for SD, but you do not need laser for this distance.
 
It helped me a lot to understand but at the same time made me second guess my thoughts on the 38 special 642
Click to expand...

Don't. It's a great gun. Just bought one yesterday.

Point #1 - you wish to pocket-carry
#2 - anything heavier than an Airweight (~15 oz.) is a chore to carry in the pocket - try carrying the 640 or the 649 in a pocket and you'll notice a definite sagging. These guns are great IWB, but bad in the pocket. Even an Airweight is at the maximum limit for pocket carry, IMHO.
#3 - an Airweight recoils about as much as most shooters can take with .38 Special +P.

Conclusion - buy an Airweight. ;)
 
Pocket carry is always nice but I never recommend that - and being a woman, you'd think I would but I don't even carry in a purse. Bottom line, if it hurts to practice long term, you won't get terribly accurate. My thoughts. My 36 is a sweet gun but I prefer the heavier (but not by much) Colt Detective Special. Weight is your friend. If you think carrying 23 oz is a chore, you need to find a good gym. Most people don't carry in the pocket expect for short term - going to the car quick, down the street, etc. Your hands will thank you for the 649/640. Although I adore my SP DAO, one of these is always on my list for lighter carry but you can keep the lasers, light weight guns. If I want something light, I'll go for a Glock 26.
 
I have a 642 and a Sp101 3” both equipped with CT laser grips. Even though most like to carry the 642 in the pocket I still feel like its dragging me down when I carry it that way so both the SP and 642 go into a smartcarry holster. Generally I wear the smartcarry higher than commonly worn with the butt of the gun right at or slightly above the belt depending if I’m shirt tucked or untucked. Wearing this way means for a very fast draw when seated or standing. Both my guns are sighted in at 25 feet. Whatever position I’m in be it laying flat on the ground on my back or sticking the gun around a corner, wherever the laser is pointed the bullet will hit the target. I used 158gr. swc in both guns (.38 and .357)and recoil is acceptable. :cool:
 
Was also trying to decide-642 or 640 for pocket carry. I rented a 342, 642 AND the 640, with 10 rds. .357 and 20 rounds .38 for each, except just .38 for the 642. Shot the 342 and 642 first, on purpose, to see if 640 was that much nicer. 342 and 642 with .38s--no problem. Ruled 342 out with .357s--yeeoow. 642 with Cor Bon .38 110+Ps I snuck in hurt a little, but main concern was even inside 5 yards, could not place follow-up shots that well.

Next came the 640. .38s-no problem. .357s, uncomfortable, but recoil felt significantly less, and followup shots MUCH better. Borrowed an Uncle Mike's #4 pocket holster from the store/range and dropped 640 in my cargo shorts pocket. No sag. I mostly wear heavier cargo shorts.

Decided on 640. Here it is. I also carry Bianchi speed strip OR speed loader (Bianchi in pajama shorts, like now, and speedloader in cargo pocket). Also shown is my Benchmade knife, which I carry in small of the back, horizontally.

You will enjoy the 640 more, and it will last longer with practice +Ps or .357s, and it carries fine in the pocket.

640andStuff2.jpg
 
Another benefit of the 640 over the 642 that I didn't see mentioned in a quick read is the pinned front sight of the 640. Since I don't want to worry about the crimson trace grips going out of alignment, battery dead, etc., I wanted capability to change to an XS Sight Systems "Big Dot" front sight (formerly AO Sights). At $60, these are the best quick acquisition front sights you can buy for inside 25 yards, and are a benefit in bright light as well as low light.

The 640 (and the 340pd/342) have pinned front sights. Why oh why did they not offer pinned sight on the 642?

Here's a link to the XS company (web site under development) and a good sight to see the big dots:

http://www.xssights.com/

http://www.gunblast.com/XS_BigDot.htm

http://www.theshootingedge.com/Military & LE/xs.htm
 
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