S&W 1911 External Extractor

I have a couple of S&W 1911's. While the traditionalists may not like the design change the external extractor works just fine. I can't see any way possible for the pin to come out while the gun is assembled.

External extractors on 1911's got a bad rap when Kimber made some that didn't work. But overall they work better than the internal design. I'll take performance over nostalgia every time.
 
Please supply the evidence to support that statement.
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Glock. S&W M&P. Sig Sauer. Beretta. CZ. Browning High Power. And many many more.

In other words, pretty much every single successful autoloader design for over a half century has featured an external extractor.

Yes, there's more parts. Kinda. Extractor + spring + pin vs. Extractor + retaining plate (while the retaining plate on the 1911 slide also retains the firing pin, its function is also to keep the extractor in place). So there's one more part. In exchange you get a part that doesn't need individual tuning- if the slide is machines properly and the springs and extractors are to spec, there's no fiddling. Just insert spring, hold the extractor in place, insert pin.

Is the internal extractor functional? Sure. Does it work great? Yes. Is it superior? I think the evolution of the autoloading handgun has pretty well shown that the external works every bit as well and is generally easier/cheaper to implement. No need to throw money at a part when that cash can be used for other parts or to keep the whole thing more affordable while not giving up one iota of function.

The iconoclastic love for the internal extractor and disparagement of the external design is silly. Yes, externals can be implemented poorly (Kimber a while back). Internals can be done poorly too (there's no shortage of 1911s that have needed extractor tuning). It's all down to how a particular design is implemented... and makers have been finding external extractors to be plenty effective enough to use them exclusively for quite some time.
 
The Browning is like the 1911.
It started out from Mr Browning and Msr Saive with an internal extractor which was replaced with an external by their bean counting successors.

While it is commonly said that external extractors require only assembly, not fitting, I have read that the S&W pattern may need fitting and they won't sell YOU the tools.
 
Ah, I sit corrected (since I'm not standing). The High Power, like the 1911, has evolved over the years.

As far as S&W, since they have a lifetime warranty with great service I'd not worry too much about the extractor fitting... if it fails, let them fix it for free.
 
The double link Colts had internal extractors but they were retained by pins, presenting the same problem as the firing pin retainer pins for field detail stripping. JMB's solution, the use of the so-called "firing pin stop" to retain both the firing pin and the extractor was pretty ingenious.

Jim
 
Glock. S&W M&P. Sig Sauer. Beretta. CZ. Browning High Power. And many many more.
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It could well be that it is the case for those firearms,this thread however is about the S&W 1911.
In other words, pretty much every single successful autoloader design for over a half century has featured an external extractor.
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Again apples and oranges,my request was for concrete evidence not just an
opinion that external extractors are a better system in other types of arms.
 
JMB's solution, the use of the so-called "firing pin stop" to retain both the firing pin and the extractor was pretty ingenious
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As was his idea of integrating the spring and extractor,simplifying yet improving.
Many examples of this in the M1911,John Browning added the thumb safety but the number of parts did not increase.
 
Used to own a Sig GSR and had to send it back to Sig due to the pin that holds the extractor in the frame walking out on me. They fixed it and sent it back to me.

My main issue with the external extractors is that S&W and Sig consider it a non-customer serviceable part. So you go from a standard part in a 1911 that anyone can get and replace to something you have to send into the factory should something go wrong.
 
It could well be that it is the case for those firearms,this thread however is about the S&W 1911.
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And I've not heard of issues with it in this model either. Fact is, that's the way manufacturers have gone, even in 1911 designs, because it's reliable, functional, and easier to do with less hand adjusting.


Fact is, the only knock against it is that some makers consider it a non-user-serviceable part. I still haven't seen that become an ACTUAL problem where users need to service it. I just clean gunk out of the extractor notch with a toothbrush... it's never needed more. That's more than I can say for the internal designs... those have occasionally needed removal and re-tensioning. No such thing needed with an external. Yes, the internal looks better, but I'll trade looks for function and reduced maintenance any day.
 
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