Run Away!

B. Lahey

New member
Well, I wasn't going to mention this experience until the fellow's court case was resolved, but he plead guilty to two counts of C-Felony Intimidation and one count of misdemeanor battery last week, so I guess I can open my mouth. I had a vagrant attempt to rob me around the holidays. I was armed. I ran away. I feel good about that decision.

I was loading a great hulking box of paper into the backseat of my car in my office parking lot when I noticed a man walking in my direction. He stopped about 5-7 yards away and asked me for money. I declined to give him any. He took that poorly, and stated that he was going to rob me while placing his right hand into his pocket...

I contemplated drawing and firing at that point, and I have had a number of lawyers tell me I should have done so and saved everyone else that now has to deal with this guy the trouble.:rolleyes:

But I did not do so, although I was indeed in reasonable fear for my life. I figured I could hop into the driver's seat of my car and lock the door before he could close the distance. I thought that if he tried to close the distance at that point or presented a weapon, I could fire through the window or try to run him over. Either way, I figured at least attempting to escape was a better option.

It worked. He didn't try to close the distance, he just stood there with his hand in his pocket trying to look mean (really looking more like the sad, middle-aged, drug addict that he is), and I was able to drive briskly from the parking lot. Thanks in part to some of the excellent tips I received in my last hairy-situation thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385645), I was able to give the cops a very detailed description and they picked him up with little trouble.

Apparently, after I ran away, he tried nearly the same stunt with somebody else, and then randomly beat up some guy in a mexican restaurant, resulting in the additional intimidation and battery charges.:eek:

I thought he should have been charged with Attempted Robbery, as I think his crime satisfied all the elements of that charge, and I would have testified to that, but that's the prosecutor's call. I'll go down and speak at his sentencing, and hopefully he will receive a substantial sentence. I've heard he has quite an extensive and violent record, so that seems likely. Just figured I would share my experience. I've been told I would have been justified in shooting him, but I'm glad I at least gave escape a chance, and that it worked out.
 
Well done sir.
I agree 100%,,,
In my not-so-humble-opinion,,,
You made the correct choice for the situation.

Not so much for the fact that he didn't deserve to be shot,,,
But for the fact that you didn't deserve the personal aftermath of shooting someone.

Violence is always the last resort of a civilized man.
Not so sure that I agree with this though,,,
I cringe at the word "always",,,
But that's just me.

A swift violent response has saved my bacon in the past,,,
Mom didn't wonder what the man was doing in our living room,,,
She assumed he had bad thoughts and shot him down where he stood.

He was a violent man with a violent criminal record,,,
Her violent response was very civilized,,,
Ended his threat to society forever.

You, my friend,,,
Made a very good situational choice,,,
You didn't let your ego override your good sense.

Happy that you were unscathed.

Aarond
 
Yes, well done indeed.

It's great that you were able to put what you learned from that "Be a Good Witness" thread to such good use... (I'd forgotten about that one -- there's some excellent information there.)

And that you'll speak at the fellow's sentencing... Bravo, again.

You've shown how a model citizen should behave; that's about as good as it gets.
 
Since your account doesn't state that he was armed, I assume he wasn't so you would have shot an unarmed man who YOU say was threatening but nobody else was present to see. And you had the opportunity to retreat, and wisely did so while maintaining the option to use deadly force. So you made a very wise decision, and at the very least saved yourself a huge expenditure on attorneys.

We who carry should always try to avoid shooting, not look for excuses TO shoot. It's about self-defense, bottom line.

That said, there isn't always much time to decide, and the "he who hesitates is lost" axiom. Training, training, training, to hone the decision-making process.....
 
Good job, B.

I take that he actually didn't have a gun in his pocket, since there were no weapons charges. Correct?

Also, was there any media attention on this? I hope they would make mention of this example of a responsible gun owner, to counter the often negative tone that is taken.
 
B. Lahey
Run Away!
<SNIP>
I was loading a great hulking box of paper into the backseat of my car in my office parking lot when I noticed a man walking in my direction. He stopped about 5-7 yards away and asked me for money. I declined to give him any. He took that poorly, and stated that he was going to rob me while placing his right hand into his pocket...

I think it was poor tactics to get into your car while he still had his hand in his pocket. Did you turn your back on him? What if he rushed you as you were getting into the car? Yes, you now know that he wasn't armed, but what if he was? Also, even if the guy only had a knife, 7 yards is a couple of seconds away.

I contemplated drawing and firing at that point, and I have had a number of lawyers tell me I should have done so and saved everyone else that now has to deal with this guy the trouble.

Dunno about firing, but you should have drawed, have him get his hands up, and tell him to get the F* away from you - LOUD. Call the cops immediatedly afterward. If he doesn't comply and continues toward you...well...

But I did not do so, although I was indeed in reasonable fear for my life. I figured I could hop into the driver's seat of my car and lock the door before he could close the distance. I thought that if he tried to close the distance at that point or presented a weapon, I could fire through the window or try to run him over. Either way, I figured at least attempting to escape was a better option.

What if he decided to draw and shoot you as you were closing the back door and getting into the driver's seat? Would you have time to draw?

It worked. He didn't try to close the distance, he just stood there with his hand in his pocket trying to look mean (really looking more like the sad, middle-aged, drug addict that he is), and I was able to drive briskly from the parking lot. Thanks in part to some of the excellent tips I received in my last hairy-situation thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385645), I was able to give the cops a very detailed description and they picked him up with little trouble.

Like I'd said, I am glad it worked out for you.

Apparently, after I ran away, he tried nearly the same stunt with somebody else, and then randomly beat up some guy in a mexican restaurant, resulting in the additional intimidation and battery charges.

Did you call the cops afterward? Lot's of armchair QB'ing here, but it could have stopped with you.

<SNIP> I've been told I would have been justified in shooting him, but I'm glad I at least gave escape a chance, and that it worked out.

Please don't take any of my comments personally. It's what I would have done. Anytime you make it out unscathed is a good thing.
 
Well done. There is no reason that these two sentences:
B. Lahey said:
. . . .I was armed. I ran away. . . .
cannot sit back to back. Having a gun doesn't mean that you have to shoot someone. I think most, if not all, of us have read up on what the aftermath of (even the cleanest) SD shooting can be. You avoided being robbed, being injured, and being sued by the family and estate of the vagrant. That's a good result for you.
 
Good for you making the right decision and being able to think so quickly!

B. Lahey said:
Thanks in part to some of the excellent tips I received in my last hairy-situation thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385645), I was able to give the cops a very detailed description and they picked him up with little trouble.
Thank you for directing me to this most helpful information.

GDCooper said:
We who carry should always try to avoid shooting, not look for excuses TO shoot. It's about self-defense, bottom line.

That said, there isn't always much time to decide, and the "he who hesitates is lost" axiom. Training, training, training, to hone the decision-making process.....

Thank you for this statement.
Everywhere I go in this forum I'm learning something valuable!!
 
B. Lahey

glad you are ok and glad you were able to exit the situation unharmed. You made the right choice in this situation. However, what would you have done if this guy wasn't bluffing(or wasn't such a slow thinker)? Things can escalate quick; I would hate to see that you were injured and/or killed because you didn't want to exercise your right to use your CCW. If he pulled and fired because he was deranged and/or upset with you leaving(like he was upset you didn't respect his panhandling), he could've put you in a world of hurt. If you had drawn, you 1)can leave while having a gun pulled on him & then can dial the police or 2)use lethal force if he truely had a weapon and drew it. Whatever the case it seems you thought quick on your feet which is definately a good character trait.
 
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You were right...

You probably would have ended up getting sued by the robber, or doing a life stint. Sometimes you have to go the other way to stay out of trouble. Glad you didn't get hurt!:D
 
my opinion

doing a life stint

for drawing a CCW on a guy thats claiming to have a weapon, stating he is going to rob you, and who has a dangerous past? Lahey rolled the dice and made it out ok. this isn't always the case.
 
Great job. A real man knows when to retreat. A gun doesnt make you God, and the last recourse of a civilized man should be violence

WildfwiwyouhavemyrespectAlaska ™©2002-2011
 
Sounds like you made the right decision. Glad you were armed too just incase. Nothing like having an ace of spades in your pocket incase your delt a bad hand.
 
It is very easy to sit and say you should do this or that or I would do this or that but from personal experience I can assure you that even with training you don't "Really" know what you will do until you face that situation.

Good job in taking the right steps to prevent an escalation.
I suspect there was something about this guy that made you seconds guess he didn't have a weapon or a set of variables that made you feel escape was possible.

Your subconscious process a lot of information under stress you are not even aware of. It happens very fast and plays out in slow motion after the event has passed.

Any time IMHO you can avoid drawing on someone is a victory. Killing a man is an ugly thing even if they deserve it.
 
The plan you had worked, great thinking. Shows that the best weapon is your brain.

My nephew told me killing a person isnt so good for the one doing the killing. He just got back from Iraq and Afganistan. I belive him, I dont wish to test that out.
 
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