Ruger QC or lack thereof

It has become a fact of life that anything that will be stuck on a retailer's shelf can and probably will find someone to buy it. If you go to a junk store or dollar store and look through the knicknacks, you will find such garbage that you would think that NOBODY would buy it. The thing is, if it doesn't sell, it means that the right moron and the right price haven't come together yet.

Every time I visit my hardware store there are baskets full of garbage grade pocket knives. no price could induce me to buy one but millions of these things are sold annually. would you believe that my dad owned only one pocket knife?

do these people even bother sharpening them or do they just throw them away when they can't scratch a lottery ticket anymore?

the guns described are just waiting for someone who forgot his reading glasses.
 
The ruger came back from repair shop and I’d have to say they got everything I mentioned taken care of within 2 weeks. I am however shipping back a set of scope rings due to poor machining, sharp burr on one and the other ring is not round, has a 2mm indentation. The story of my life lol

Kudos to repair shop. Whoever is doing qc needs to step it WAY up
 
I started buying Rugers when I was a kid. I started with Single-6 and SBH in handguns and
buy the time I graduated high school I had one of everything they made. That was possible in the 60s. I don't like the New Model handguns in revolver or auto. Even the new models had good fit and finish. I do believe Bill Ruger had a lot to do with keeping the quality up.
Last new Ruger I bought was 77/22 when 1st out. I'm not interested in any new Rugers at all. The bean counters have ruined them. The had the best 22 rifle on the market the 10/22.
They had no competition against it from American Companies. They were known accurate &
durable guns. So what do they do? Put plastic and cast parts in them building another mediocre 22 rifle. I still by old Rugers,S&W and other old guns but want no part of any new gun that I can think of. ( made in USA )
 
briandg said:
Not sure whether I'm on target here, but it sounds as if you are demanding an awful lot of perfection on a machine made item.

Does it fire and function properly, shoot with normal accuracy for the type, and are there no flaws that you could see without holding it up to the light and doing a close examination? If it meets those criteria that's kind of what you could ask for an american made utility type firearm.

Forty years ago there were flawed units put out by everyone. Sixty years ago. Twenty. Still happening. In that time there have been a heck of a lot of very good guns that looked wondrous.

Tom turpin once wrote in an article that they heym drilling he was examining had crappy QC because some of the checkering was a bit rough, he didn't like the finish, the engraving wasn't artistic enough. He liked his "shootin' irons" to be more perfect than that.

Can you get a $500 diamond that is eye clean and has good color? sure. Are you going to find one that will stand up to scrutiny with a loupe? Who cares, it's not an investment, it's something that your wife will be wearing when she washes the dishes.

Something to remember is that there are no factory seconds for guns. A scratch or pit doesn't mean that it can't be sold, maybe it may be released through non retail channels, but no company is going to burn a mark in the thing that says 'rejected' if there is an poorly polished section. There are always going to be parts that have been cut at the very end of a cutter's useful life that have less than flawless finish.

For another example, I was looking at a very expensive piece of circassian walnut once. Thousand dollars plus. it had a "repairable split" and a few worm holes. A lot of things now are "if you want it buy it and if you don't somebody else will."
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I agree, see if these where Freedom Arms/USFA/Bowen or any other "high-end" boutique maker of wheelguns and had these kinds of QC problems, yeah i could see how you could be PO'd, but we are talking about mass produced wheelguns that have to make a profit, i like Rugers they're good guns for the price, but they are not meant to be high end masterpieces that go "BANG", and they're not meant to be, no mass produced wheelguns are.
 
I hate to throw this in as well, but we have as a group very loudly and clearly said that butt ugly and nasty looking is just hunky dory as long as we get any one or two of the others. accurate, strong, cheap.

The paint and plastic routine replaced millions of dollars worth of wood and the hours and tooling needed to turn, finish and fit wooden stocks. Grinding, smoothing, polishing and then bluing have been replaced by bead blasting and painting. If it will knock a deer down at a few hundred yards, some people will carry it, even if it looks like it was just dragged out after a century in an outhouse pit.


For some people being able to hit that deer across the backyard is good enough and they may even be willing to buy a two century old brown bess that is held together with wire and tape, that he traded for a barlow.

Cosmetic perfection is the most expensive part of the equation. A gun can be milled out and assembled relatively cheaply, and no matter what else you do, you have that cost. Having skilled workers hand fitting and cleaning, then polishing it out, adding a little scrollwork maybe, that costs what, $40 an hour and the cost of tooling and materials? That's why we can buy a ruger american for about $400 but a weatherby mark v starts out about four times that price.

Current machining creates parts so perfect that they don't need to pass close inspection before assembly or after. In truth it is far more desirable to cut out $100 or more of inspection costs when pushing a few hundred thousand LCP pistols out the door and replace and throw away any that are returned.

So, we don't like that? Awww, too bad, these companies have been trained to do it by the consumer. If I boycott smith and wesson because I don't like the finish on my gun, someone else will just buy it. Maybe I'll even be the one who sells it to someone who doesn't care about the scratches.

think about what puts a company out of business now. It's not the quality of their product or any other tangible thing, these companies are almost always failing because they can't turn a profit. Why do most companies start turning out substandard products? because they can't turn a profit.
 
So, we don't like that? Awww, too bad, these companies have been trained to do it by the consumer. If I boycott smith and wesson because I don't like the finish on my gun, someone else will just buy it. Maybe I'll even be the one who sells it to someone who doesn't care about the scratches.

think about what puts a company out of business now. It's not the quality of their product or any other tangible thing, these companies are almost always failing because they can't turn a profit. Why do most companies start turning out substandard products? because they can't turn a profit.
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You are absolutely on to something here. The firearms industry has been cut-throat over the past few political cycles. Booming and soaring under 1 presidency out of a fear-driven high demand, and barely holding on for the time being as the "they're coming for your guns!" fear has subsided and most folks purchased what they wanted prior to 2016. Many folks even purchased something they had only a nominal care for, mostly out of fear they couldn't buy it later, only to find out that it's not in immediate danger of being prohibited and by golly the Dodge needs a new transmission. Cheap ARs flood the used market. Which means the new market must get even cheaper. Which means even more corners are cut.

I believe the revolver market is slightly different though. To even have a line of revolvers means that Ruger, S&W, and now Colt and Kimber, wishes to remain diversified. What your average revolver owner looks for in one is usually radically different than most guys content to buy a cheap Ruger Security 9 for the bedstand and to say they have a gun. I would gladly pay an extra $50-$100 for a blued Ruger SA revolver if just a few small issues were fixed. For your typical rubber/plastic gripped stainless model, I can overlook most of my gripes.

But before I ranted slightly off topic, you're correct about what drives MOST companies out of business. It's inability to make a profit. The thing is, there are companies that put out exceptional products with very good fit and finish... with many of these companies flourishing.

I know it's not fair to compare an American made revolver, with our Unions and wages, to an Italian revolver. So my earlier Pietta example maybe wasn't completely fair. But I still believe there is room for Ruger to improve in their revolver market. They can start with the fit of the grips on their SA revolvers. It should not feel like I'm holding a steel slab with 2x4s hanging off it. A drum sander and 5 minutes could take care of it, easily not adding $20 to the overall production cost. A cost, I would add, that I would happily pay in addition to their current price to not have to reshape and refinish the grips myself to get a decent fit.
 
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I've been buying Rugers since the 70s, rifle and revolver. I currently have nine Blackhawks in various persuasions. I have been immensely satisfied with them for decades. My only additions have been Belt Mountain Base Pins and Bowen Sights. Rugers are produced using Investment Cast, so there will be some occasional fit and finish issues. I would wonder with that list, did you shoot it? If it shot bad, I'm with you. Now, if you want a more sophisticated revolver, get a Colt with the attendant price differential. I consider Ruger SA like my RAM pickup. It won't have the fit and finish of a Benz, but it is tens of thousands less.
 
5whiskey said:
I know it's not fair to compare an American made revolver, with our Unions and wages, to an Italian revolver. So my earlier Pietta example maybe wasn't completely fair. But I still believe there is room for Ruger to improve in their revolver market. They can start with the fit of the grips on their SA revolvers. It should not feel like I'm holding a steel slab with 2x4s hanging off it. A drum sander and 5 minutes could take care of it, easily not adding $20 to the overall production cost. A cost, I would add, that I would happily pay in addition to their current price to not have to reshape and refinish the grips myself to get a decent fit.
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I just have to LOL at the thought that there are union workers working at Ruger or S&W. There is not one union manufacturing shop in all of New England and there hasn't been one for decades.
 
TruthTellers said:
I just have to LOL at the thought that there are union workers working at Ruger or S&W. There is not one union manufacturing shop in all of New England and there hasn't been one for decades.
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Colt is union... which is in Connecticut... which is part of New England.

Jim
 
laytonj1 said:
Colt is union... which is in Connecticut... which is part of New England.

Jim
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SW Connecticut is practically an extension of New York City, in fact the only reason it's so built up as it is is so companies can avoid the NYC taxes.

My point is that S&W, Ruger, Sig... they're all up around these parts and they aren't unionized.

It's funny that a lot of people will bash unions, but I've worked in shops that are both union and non-union and the quality, workmanship, and organization of the union shops are far superior to non-union ones. Back in the 80s and before, there were a lot of union shops and apparently that was when quality was the best and people wonder if there's a cause and effect.

There is, unions manufacture better products vs non-unions. They may make the price of a gun go up $100 or $200, but then the workers are being paid more than $11/hr and the quality goes up too.
 
I've had about 8 different Ruger SA pistols, every one of them, including a Single-Six, was terrible. Most were .45 Colt, but one, a 5.5" Bisley in .41... one of my Unobtanium guns... was awful as well. I even took a chance and bought one of those Lipsey's .44SPC Blackhawks a few years ago... it had mismatched throats and a torque bulge in the barrel. I know now that having the cylinder throats reamed is almost mandatory... I wish I would have known that before I sold the .41.

I'm down to my last Ruger... my old 5.5" Vaquero in .45 Colt, strictly a utilitarian pistol. It most likely will be my last one. I may take a chance on another .41, but it's pretty far down the list.
 
Charlie_98 said:
I've had about 8 different Ruger SA pistols, every one of them, including a Single-Six, was terrible. Most were .45 Colt, but one, a 5.5" Bisley in .41... one of my Unobtanium guns... was awful as well. I even took a chance and bought one of those Lipsey's .44SPC Blackhawks a few years ago... it had mismatched throats and a torque bulge in the barrel. I know now that having the cylinder throats reamed is almost mandatory... I wish I would have known that before I sold the .41.



I'm down to my last Ruger... my old 5.5" Vaquero in .45 Colt, strictly a utilitarian pistol. It most likely will be my last one. I may take a chance on another .41, but it's pretty far down the list.
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I only have a sample size of one.... But my 41 Blackhawk was made in 1998, I found it on consignment a few months ago, barely used as best I can tell, no forcing cone erosion, no scratches, ... I'm a perfectionist in every way, very anal about my guns.... And I can't find a single problem anywhere on that gun....the cylinder mouths are all the same size too, a little tight for cast but I don't shoot cast anyway.

I've had $2,000 1911's that weren't that slick.

I was able to speak to the owner before buying it... He had some trigger work done on it by a reputable gunsmith (and that trigger is sweet), he wanted to use it for hunting but just couldn't handle the recoil and sold it after about 20 rounds.... I believe he was flinching, because when I got the pistol the rear sight was adjusted all the way to the right and up too much also (anticipating the shot, forcing the trigger).... For me, it shoots straight with the sight centered in its adjustment range.

It also came with a Hogue monogrip (in addition to the factory grips) , which is butt ugly, but it works great and I'm leaving it on there.

Best dang $400 I ever spent! It shoots straight with every load I've put in it so far, from mild to wild.

All that is to say, keep looking, you'll find one somewhere... There are good ones out there.


 
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My SP101 that I bought new just a few weeks ago shoots great... But it ain't gonna win any beauty contests.

Bought my son a 4 inch SP101 that also shoots great... Its not gonna win any beauty contests either. I may send it in to Ruger this winter and let them work on it a bit.... The timing is just a smidge off, not terrible but not right either.....I saw it before I bought it, but bought it anyway because everything else on it looks good and timing is an easy fix.
 
All that is to say, keep looking, you'll find one somewhere... There are good ones out there.
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I'm willing to admit I've just had bad luck with Rugers... certainly they aren't ALL bad, and I admire Ruger as a company... they make some crazy stuff that no one else does, I just have an issue with their production QC. Everyone probably has their own story... Kimber comes immediately to mind. I've probably had problems with all of the major makes of firearms... Smith, Colt, Springfield, Taurus, Marlin, AMT... there's probably more. I just don't like that I've drawn short straw 8 times in a row... They say 3rd times the charm... I've never heard anything about the 9th time.
 
The only time I have had to use the customer service with Ruger has been when I purchased the Ruger Precision Rifle. The rifle itself is solid. It shoots one hole groups at 100 yards. The problem is it wont feed right at all. If I try to feed rounds from the magazine the round catches on the feed ramp. It tore one case shoulder all the way through, and it leaked powder into the action. I notified them about the problem. I had to wait to be able to send it as I was moving to another state at the time. I was in that state for 6 months, and am back. so now I will be contacting them again for a shipping label so I can send it to them for repair work.


I am sure if it were needed for around $50 to $80 I could probably have a local gunsmith remove the barrel, and clean up the feed ramp. It is one of those small things that somehow made its way past the QC department. I am going to send it back to them though. I paid nearly $1300 for a rifle so I should not have to be working on it.
 
Ruger likes to push their 'customer service,' because, as the old saying goes, 'When there's never time to do it right, there's always time to do it over.' :rolleyes:

To be fair, Ruger isn't by the only gun-maker these days who views post-sale returns for 'warranty work' as the appropriate time to fix problems that should've been caught and remedied during production and assembly - i.e., before retail sale.
 
You know, unless they are pouring out hundreds of units of garbage, and the vast majority of what they sell is acceptable to the buyers, there just isn't anything wrong with that. It works, and that is the only thing that matters to them. They sell as many units as possible at a price that can move them and maybe almost everyone is happy when they get it or when they get it back, everybody wins.

It's not the only way that companies are shredding costs. Injection molded plastic and black paint are cheap. CNC and sintered metals as well.

And as I said, the public has almost universally embraced the idea of saving money this way.

We had a guy here once who signed up here for the sole reason of screaming about his LCP being an absolute piece of garbage because there was a huge defect in the slide. I looked into it and he had signed up with about a half dozen sites and trolled them as well. The flaw that he was talking about wasn't a mistake, the thing had been designed with a small slot and he thought that it was a mistake.

I got a suspension for rudely calling him a troll and he moved on and never came back. But the point is that he didn't want to play the game the way it worked, bought a $200 thing and expected a hand fitted and top quality piece of equipment that would function flawlessly, look beautiful, and run 10X groups all day.

Never forget, this is what the public wants. The public wants to go to walmart and get a $300 combination rifle and scope with black poly stock and bead blasted krylon barrel, and they have no intention of ever trying for minute of chipmunk. This will sell maybe 100 units for every $1,500 unit with nice would and fine workmanship. We asked for it and this is what we got. And even doing it the most efficient way possible, they still have problems turning a profit at some companies.

But otoh, since we have been overrun by AR clones put out by maybe even 100 small makers and the AR clone probably outsells the bolt rifle or even levergun by a factor of ten, it complicates things even more. traditional rifle makers have resisted that change because the market was saturated, profits would be slim and slow to arrive, and they would be just another maker. The remington AR clone would be burdened by the lack of recognition and reputation as well as the limited mass production diversity of design. We can pick up an AR with hundreds of different barrel designs, stocks, shapes, sizes, all straight from the shelf. How could a major US manufacturer be able to compete with that and still create sales volume and profit?
 
In my limited experience, they are knocking it out of the park with the LCR but the SP101 and GP100 could use a little more attention to detail before leaving the factory.
 
Just so I’m not crazy ruger did address all those issues I mentioned. The gun shoots well 2 inches at 25yd with off the shelf 240gr Winchester and federal champion. Shot 6 groups of 6 to verify consistency. After 60 rounds almost every screw and pin on the gun and rings have shot loose lol these are range 44mag not hot loaded
 
I have been collecting Rugers for 15 years. From old 3 screw single actions to modern stuff.

Every single firearm I have bought brand new from them since the Ruger SR9 debuted has had to go back except a super black hawk in 44mag(which is gorgeous). And not for nit-picky stuff. The SR9 barrel peened itself to death after a few hundred rounds.

Attached is a set of SASS Vaqueros I ordered from an online retailer and picked up a few weeks ago from my FFL. Tooling marks all over the place. Rounds won't load into the chambers. Both guns just an epic mess. I had to go buy a set of Taylor Smoke Wagon Deluxes to replace. My dealer agreed to take them back and refund me, but I sent them to Ruger anyway because they promised to make them right, which I have no doubt they will. I'm not expecting safe queens, but there is no excuse for issues like this getting out.

That being said, I love the older stuff, unconverted single actions with beautiful finishes and smooth actions.
 

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