Ruger Mini-30 issues with steel cased ammo and/or hard primers

if your shooting that junk with the steel cases,then it;s your own fault.
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Puuhhlease. If a gun that sells for half the price (and/or from a maker with as shoddy a reputation as Century Arms) can run without issue on steel-cased ammo, particularly since we're talking about a cartridge for which steel-cased ammunition is quite standard, the blame rests with the firearm.

IF this is actually a problem it is a RUGER problem. If anyone designs and sells a semi auto carbine in 7.62-39 caliber you have to know that at least half or more of the people buying your gun will use steel case berdan primed ammo.

If the gun you designed will not function with this ammo you screwed up.

The Ruger Mini 30 is not a match grade target rifle. It is a carbine that people buy to plink and hunt with and to keep around for just a working class all around gun.

It is going to be fed whatever ammo people find that is accurate enough for the purpose and is cheap.

Ruger should have known this and did what was necessary to make the gun work with steel case ammo.
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Precisely.

It is against the law to sell chinese ammo in the USA.
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No, it is not.

These folks seem to be doing it quite publicly:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=264142756

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265150903

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=264873316

If one is to search gunbroker for Chinese ammunition, they will find that there are actually quite few people selling the stuff. What is forbidden is the further importation of Chinese ammunition. The stuff that's still in the country from the times when Chinese ammo was being imported is still legal to own, sell, trade, etc and can still be found if one looks for it.
 
This if from the owners manual:

The RUGER® MINI-14® RANCH RIFLES are offered in two calibers: the
.223 Remington (5.56mm) cartridge and the 6.8mm Remington SPC cartridge.
The Target Model uses .223 Remington cartridges only.
RUGER® MINI THIRTY RIFLES are chambered for the 7.62 x 39mm
cartridge, and can use either standard U.S. military or factory loaded sporting
7.62 x 39mm cartridges manufactured in accordance with U.S. industry practice.

Do not attempt to use any other cartridges in this rifle, even though “7.62mm” may appear in their names (i.e., 7.62 x 51mm NATO [.308 Winchester]; 7.62 Tokarev; 7.62 x 54 Rimmed Russian, etc.).

The Mini-14 Ranch and Mini Thirty Rifles are designed to use either standardized U.S. military, or factory loaded sporting cartridges manufactured in accordance with U.S. industry practice. Always be careful to ensure you are using the correct ammunition for your rifle.

See “Ammunition Notice” & “Warning -Ammunition,” below.

USE ONLY FACTORY AMMUNITION LOADED
TO U.S. INDUSTRY STANDARDS

Please note the final sentence which is in bold and red in the actual manual. If one is doing their part before you buy, READ THE MANUAL!

Don't blame Ruger put the blame where it belongs with the owner that did NOT do his/her part buy checking it out BEFORE pulling cash out of the wallet.:eek:
 
I would guess that the vast majority of people who bought these rifles did so because of all the cheap STEEL CASE ammo that is available.

This rifle would be useless to many people if you can't use such ammo in it.

I know for sure I will never own one if this is the case.
 
Don't blame Ruger put the blame where it belongs with the owner that did NOT do his/her part buy checking it out BEFORE pulling cash out of the wallet.
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USE ONLY FACTORY AMMUNITION LOADED
TO U.S. INDUSTRY STANDARDS

Please note the final sentence which is in bold and red in the actual manual. If one is doing their part before you buy, READ THE MANUAL!
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But what exactly are the "US industry standards" for 7.62x39? There's only a small handful of American manufacturers that produce a 7.62x39 load, and so to call any of those loadings "standard" would be quite a stretch. Fact of the matter is, Ruger produced a 7.62x39 semi-automatic carbine that can't seem to handle by far the most common/available type of ammunition in that caliber. It would almost be akin to creating a weapon that only functions with safety slugs.

Take a look at Century Arms, they hire folks that get paid barely above minimum wage, have a lousy record for quality control, and have an absolutely awful warranty (only lasts a few months, and they start counting from when the gun leaves the factory, not from when it's actually purchased by the end-user), despite all of these things, these proverbial drunken monkeys can actually put together a rifle that will work without any problems whatsoever with whatever ammo you put through it. And one is to accept that Ruger can't do the same, particularly since they charge a lot more for their product?

I guess what it comes down to is if it's gonna cost more than most AK's, it should do more than most AK's.
 
Why can't I just buy a pin from ruger. If ruger requires you to ship crap to them when you can do the damn job by yourself, ruger is trash.
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Actually unless you can fit the pin to the bolt, you can't do it yourself. Lots of people are competent enough to do the job I would imagine and Glend Arms makes a firing pin for those people but Ruger will not sell you a firing pin. PerfectUnion is the place for this conversation, there's a bunch of firing pin threads over there. I would say if you really want a Mini-30 then use brass cased ammo and start reloading to save some money on ammo.

Stu
 
I REMEMBER THE DAYS OF THE $59.99 SKS, I STILL HAVE 2 OF THEM. They fire any ammo and never jam . Pretty accurate too. :D
 
But what exactly are the "US industry standards" for 7.62x39?
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As the buyer that is your responsibility. Why are you asking to shift the responsibility?

Take a look at Century Arms,
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Why? They offer nothing that I have any interest in so why bring in oranges when we're talking apples?

The bottom line is buyer beware in EVERYTHING. Again as the buyer it is your issue and no one else's.

If you want to an AK why are you looking at a mini? Go get an AK and leave the mini in the LGS...
 
Try an extra power hammer spring.
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Bad idea, but to each his own. The Mini 30 has been reported to not like hard berdin primmed ammo and a few have reported firing pin problems. Smacking the firing pin harder with an extra power hammer spring is probably not the thing to do.
 
Why all the hate?

"Ruger is crap"..etc. "If they don't make a gun that does everything I think it ought to and sell it cheap they are crap..." Where in hell does this come from?

Some people today are soo spoiled....

I wrote a long rant, but calmed down reading it. It boils down to this, in my opinion...

Some people are way to eager to badmouth things that don't measure up to their overinflated expectations.

If something doesn't do what you think it ought to do, its crap, or the people that make it are crap? I disagree.

If an individual gun doesn't do what the maker says it should, then that gun has a problem. If ALL the gun in that model don't do what the maker says they should, then the maker has a problem.

You want perfection? Maybe you better buy a GLock, they claim to be perfection. Oh, wait, GLock doesn't make a 7.62x39mm carbine? They must be CRAP!!!:rolleyes:
 
As the buyer that is your responsibility. Why are you asking to shift the responsibility?
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The buyer's responsibility is to find something that doesn't really exist?!
My point is, to recommend loads made to "US industry standards" doesn't actually mean anything, and sounds more like a cop-out... if the weapon doesn't work, the buyer simply hasn't found the right hard-to-find and expensive ammunition yet. For all a would-be buyer would know, maybe steel-cased ammo is to US industry standards for 7.62x39; just because it's foreign-made doesn't mean it's not up to standards after all.

Why? They offer nothing that I have any interest in so why bring in oranges when we're talking apples?
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How is comparing one semi-automatic 7.62x39 carbine to another semi-automatic 7.62x39 carbine not at apples to apples comparison? My point is, it's quite feasible to make an extremely reliable 7.62x39 weapon that will run on steel-cased ammo, and for not a lot of money. One would think a manufacturer that does charge a lot of money should be able to do the same.

If you want to an AK why are you looking at a mini? Go get an AK and leave the mini in the LGS...
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Who are you addressing? I'm not looking at Mini-30 and wouldn't consider one. A Mini-14 maybe, but a -30, never.

"If they don't make a gun that does everything I think it ought to and sell it cheap they are crap..." Where in hell does this come from?
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I can understand that it's not cheap, but if it's not gonna be cheap, shouldn't it work?

Some people are way to eager to badmouth things that don't measure up to their overinflated expectations.
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I don't think that's true in this case. I don't believe that wanting to the weapon to run with by far the most widely available and most standard kind of ammunition in that particular to be an over-inflated expectation.
 
Well once more please READ THE OWNERS MANUAL BTW it is the SAME manual for both the 14 and the 30. If you want to know what the "American Standard" is please feel free to give Ruger a call. I can't answer that one either but I did understand what they we trying to say.

So if you had any thoughts of using cheap 223 steal case ammo... well I guess it might be a bad idea. But I would ask FIRST and find out for sure!

It is your responsibility to understand what you are buying, period. My LGS's even told me about this when I was looking at them before any decisions were made, it came out when I was questioning the ammo part of the owners manual. I could have just as easily picked up the phone and asked someone at Ruger.

I also found out that the accuracy according to my LGS's would be about 3" at 100 yards. So if that doesn't work for the buyer then it should be a pass on this firearm.

With all of the manuals online and the ability to read them before buying why would you not read first then ask questions?

Consumers must be educated and informed. No one will do this for you, its up to you to be educated and informed,

As far as your second comment we were talking about the Mini 30 and no other firearm. That was and still is my point.

I can understand that it's not cheap, but if it's not gonna be cheap, shouldn't it work?
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It works EXACTLY the way the mfg wants it to work. NOT the way YOU want it to work.
 
If you want to know what the "American Standard" is please feel free to give Ruger a cal
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I suspect you'll get a different answer depending on who answers the phone. If there were an explicit answer, they would probably have put it in the manual. It's not uncommon for manufacturers, particularly in cases of ammo-picky guns, to include recommended loads or brands and ones to avoid in the manual.

It is your responsibility to understand what you are buying, period.
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Within reason.

With all of the manuals online and the ability to read them before buying why would you not read first then ask questions?
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And I do read the manuals to any gun I am not familiar with and looking at purchasing, but in this case, "made to U.S. industry standards" is all the manual says, which says next to nothing in regards to 7.62x39. Steel-cased, without a shadow of a doubt, dominates the market for 7.62x39 ammunition. If the gun can't use it, it should be explicitly stated in the manual, and not something you have to call the manufacturer about. For instance, there are pocket pistols that are designed for use only with hollow-point ammo, even though FMJ's are often easier to find and generally much cheaper; but it will say explicitly in the manual not to use them, simply because they're common and cheap, but the gun can't use them, so they advise the customer accordingly.

As far as your second comment we were talking about the Mini 30 and no other firearm. That was and still is my point.
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My point went back to the Mini-30 as well, I was merely pointing to other guns to show it's not impossible to make a 7.62x39 that runs on steel-cased ammo, and there's not a reason for them not to have done so with the Mini-30.

It works EXACTLY the way the mfg wants it to work. NOT the way YOU want it to work.
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So the manufacturer WANTS it to be ammo picky?

Facetiousness aside, the manufacturer never explicitly states whether or not it should work with steel-cased ammo, so it can't be said for certain whether it does what is advertised by the maker.
 
It's not uncommon for manufacturers, particularly in cases of ammo-picky guns, to include recommended loads or brands and ones to avoid in the manual.
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So the manufacturer WANTS it to be ammo picky?
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Yup, you can't argue both sides of the same issue! Here you say its OK then say its not OK. Flip Flop....

can use either standard U.S. military or factory loaded sporting
7.62 x 39mm cartridges
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I believe the ammo that you are making reference too would not be considered one of these two categories. So they did specify in the manual. I could be wrong here because I am speculating that I understand your reference. But this was fairly clear when I read it what they were saying. And I will add by omission they are telling you that reloaded ammo is also not approved/recommended for use.
 
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Stu,

I'd already checked SAAMI. There are just a few problems here 1 SAAMI is voluntary 2 it only addresses sporting arms. That precludes the military arms mfg. ammunition in my book.

I agree that this is more than likely exactly what Ruger was talking about but, without the exact verbiage in the manual we would be making yet another assumption. When from my experience Rugers problem with the ammo is very simply the hard primers used and nothing else. Most of this is the steel cased junk ammo that is great for plinking and is used in AK's and SKS's along with others.

Also this can be over come by a heavy hammer spring. Again I am drawing from first hand experience. A simple 13 dollar part that takes only a few minutes to install. But after seeing the mess (my opinion) it leaves behind is not worth using. I still have the spring installed and to date I have seen no damage to the firing pin. But I no longer really need it, I have just not returned to the original spring.

By not including the heavy spring the owner has two choices. Replacement of the spring allows the use of the hard primer ammo. The other choice would be to support the sporting arms ammo mfg.

In the final analysis I believe that Ruger was not trying to make another AK type firearm so the use would not need to include the ability to crush a hard primer case. I also believe the original thought was to make a 223 not a 7.62x39. It came later with only minor mfg tooling additions.
 
My impression of Mini 30 owners was that they liked the round, they liked the cheap ammo, but for some reason they didn't want an AK or SKS...they didn't want a "commie" gun, they didn't want an "assault rifle"...
So, they went with the Mini 30...
As I recall, at first, Ruger did not even use the correct diameter bore for the 7.62x39... Making it a reloaded ammo only rifle to get the best accuracy.
 
Thanks for the info. For those who get passionate and heated over such a subject...

just trying to figure out why the mini-30 was made as it is and if there was a modification to allow it to handle the cheap ammo.

I think they should have done things differently as well, but Ruger is a work in progress right? You can actually order a 20 round mag from them now and get "tactical" everything.

Maybe next step will be sending mini-30's out the door able to handle the cheap ammo... a mini-308 or an SR45!

It's all good. Really we are so fortunate to have the options we do.
 
The Mini 308 was the XGI but never entered production. At this point I'm not sure that it even makes sense for Ruger to try to produce the XGI but it would certainly be a cheaper (maybe) alternative to the M1A. They did advertise a bit for the XGI in the 80s but it never came too fruition.

Stu
 
Yup, you can't argue both sides of the same issue! Here you say its OK then say its not OK. Flip Flop....
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I am not flip-flopping, you're simply not reading correctly. I said it's not uncommon for some makers to recommend specific loadings and brands for certain guns, while also listing some to avoid, this is OK. This however is NOT what Ruger has done in their manual by stating "loaded to US industry standards" or whatever. It isn't even remotely the same thing. Ruger's blurb doesn't specify anything other than ruling out reloaded ammo and possibly 60+ year old surplus ammo of some kind.

"can use either standard U.S. military or factory loaded sporting
7.62 x 39mm cartridges"

I believe the ammo that you are making reference too would not be considered one of these two categories. So they did specify in the manual. I could be wrong here because I am speculating that I understand your reference. But this was fairly clear when I read it what they were saying. And I will add by omission they are telling you that reloaded ammo is also not approved/recommended for use.
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Let's look at that two-part statement."...can use either standard U.S. military" Considering the U.S. military does not formally issue any firearms chambered for 7.62x39, for all civilian shooter intents and purposes U.S. Military 7.62x39 does not even exist. This makes it apparent the manual isn't even specific to the Mini-30, but clearly just identical (as you've already admitted) to the Mini-14 manual with the usage of .223/5.56 simply swapped out for 7.62x39 without any real thought as to what kind of ammunition one is likely to shoot from each weapon. The second part specifies "factory loaded sporting 7.62 x 39mm cartridges" which does not in any way expressly exclude Wolf, Tulammo, Barnaul, Brown/Silver/Golden Bear, UCW, etc... those are indeed all examples of brands of "factory loaded sporting 7.62x39 cartridges".
 
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