Ruger LCP
- Thread starter heavybarrel
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Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
It is a stupid risk if the gun is not designed for it. Take a Beretta Pico, or Kahr and break the gun down. First of all look at the stainless steel barrel and then the sub chassis which in both guns is stainless steel vs aluminum. The Pico is all stainless in all parts of the gun except the polymer grip which is a Modular design. The Kahr is also stainless steel, but also has steel inserts in the grip at the stress points.
I have shot these guns with Plus P ammo and many rounds through them. You can go ahead and take others advice that Plus P ammo is not real simply because Saami does not include 380.
If you feel like they are right then go ahead and start shooting some plus P ammo and see the results for yourself.
Also the Kahr and Pico are both guns that will go indefinitely with a considerable amount of ammo down range. From experience I know the limitations of the cheaper aluminum sub-chassis firearms. They will go down and as early as 1500 with just standard ammo. I have one Pico that has three times that amount and running strong as ever. I just make sure I change the recoil springs on a regular.
So If you believe that I am not be truthfull, or full of BS then the only way is to find out for yourself and start shooting Plus P. But beware. That is my advice. You can listen to others on the internet if you like, but I would err in caution before taking their advice. I have had many LCP's go down. And Ruger will ask you if you have been shooting Plus P. If you are honest, and say yes, they will not replace the gun.
Go at your own Risk!
Steel inserts in Kahr grip frame
Pico grip frame
All steel sub chassis.
Barrel in the Pico for instance is Heavier
Slide is stainless steel and heavier.
Notice how the Pico has a Stainless over built take down pin. I have broken many in shooting the LCP's over the years.
Again, If you believe there is not such thing as Plus P and want to not take the advice from the owners manual, shoot Plus P ammo through a aluminum sub chassis gun, then Please go for it and find out for yourself. But go at your own Risk. And if you get hurt or destroy your gun, just tell them, you saw on the internet that there was no such thing as Plus P. Good luck with that.
I have shot these guns with Plus P ammo and many rounds through them. You can go ahead and take others advice that Plus P ammo is not real simply because Saami does not include 380.
If you feel like they are right then go ahead and start shooting some plus P ammo and see the results for yourself.
Also the Kahr and Pico are both guns that will go indefinitely with a considerable amount of ammo down range. From experience I know the limitations of the cheaper aluminum sub-chassis firearms. They will go down and as early as 1500 with just standard ammo. I have one Pico that has three times that amount and running strong as ever. I just make sure I change the recoil springs on a regular.
So If you believe that I am not be truthfull, or full of BS then the only way is to find out for yourself and start shooting Plus P. But beware. That is my advice. You can listen to others on the internet if you like, but I would err in caution before taking their advice. I have had many LCP's go down. And Ruger will ask you if you have been shooting Plus P. If you are honest, and say yes, they will not replace the gun.
Go at your own Risk!
Steel inserts in Kahr grip frame
Pico grip frame
All steel sub chassis.
Barrel in the Pico for instance is Heavier
Slide is stainless steel and heavier.
Notice how the Pico has a Stainless over built take down pin. I have broken many in shooting the LCP's over the years.
Again, If you believe there is not such thing as Plus P and want to not take the advice from the owners manual, shoot Plus P ammo through a aluminum sub chassis gun, then Please go for it and find out for yourself. But go at your own Risk. And if you get hurt or destroy your gun, just tell them, you saw on the internet that there was no such thing as Plus P. Good luck with that.
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Bill DeShivs
New member
The real question is, "Why would anyone WANT to shoot +P ammunition in a tiny, lightweight pocket .380?"
If regular ammunition won't do the job, the tiny benefit of "+P" won't make a bit of difference.
It will, however, unnecessarily wear your gun, cause excessive recoil, and lengthen shot recovery time.
If regular ammunition won't do the job, the tiny benefit of "+P" won't make a bit of difference.
It will, however, unnecessarily wear your gun, cause excessive recoil, and lengthen shot recovery time.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Without a doubt, my favorite 380 ammo is the PrecisionOne, which was rated very high on the list as one of the best in the Shooting the Bull series of test. For one thing, not only the results, but for myself, I have found it to be the most accurate 380 ammo available. And oddly enough it is a mild shooting ammo.
After the series, PrecisioOne later developed the same XTP cartridge but in Plus P. It is rated about 75fps faster. And I can feel the difference when shooting. Precision one warns that the gun was tested and to be used with a Glock 380 because of the heavier recoil springs. According to PrecisionOne on a phone call I made to them, the newer plus P will give more penetration and expansion. While I have not tested it, it seems logical.
Since then, I have shot about 250 rounds of the Plus P through the Beretta Pico which shoots this ammo just fine. The Pico and the Kahr do have heavier spring.
Now if I can get a little more penetration and expansion out of a 380, I will take it.
https://precisiononeammunition.com/product/380-acp-90gr-hp-xtppnew/
By the way, the Underwood Defender and Leheigh Defense loads have had a great reception in 32.cal. Seems to have changed the ball game in that caliber. And I have carried the 6 1/2 ounce P32 quite a bit this summer in light shorts and Tee shirts.
Personally I love the small barrel guns for carry and I love shooting them.
Here are a few of the ones I own. Not pictured is my CM9 which I love and two other Beretta Nano's which are my favorite.
After the series, PrecisioOne later developed the same XTP cartridge but in Plus P. It is rated about 75fps faster. And I can feel the difference when shooting. Precision one warns that the gun was tested and to be used with a Glock 380 because of the heavier recoil springs. According to PrecisionOne on a phone call I made to them, the newer plus P will give more penetration and expansion. While I have not tested it, it seems logical.
Since then, I have shot about 250 rounds of the Plus P through the Beretta Pico which shoots this ammo just fine. The Pico and the Kahr do have heavier spring.
Now if I can get a little more penetration and expansion out of a 380, I will take it.
https://precisiononeammunition.com/product/380-acp-90gr-hp-xtppnew/
By the way, the Underwood Defender and Leheigh Defense loads have had a great reception in 32.cal. Seems to have changed the ball game in that caliber. And I have carried the 6 1/2 ounce P32 quite a bit this summer in light shorts and Tee shirts.
Personally I love the small barrel guns for carry and I love shooting them.
Here are a few of the ones I own. Not pictured is my CM9 which I love and two other Beretta Nano's which are my favorite.
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wild cat mccane
New member
Again, PrecisionOne is just a reloader. It buys the bullet from Hornady. PrecisionOne did not "later developed the same XTP cartridge but in Plus P." PrecisionOne just loaded Hornady's bullet into their higher pressure load.
Additionally, it doesn't make sense it gives more expansion and more penetration.
Typically, you get one or the other. Increased speed opens the hollow point faster and slows it down. Or it opens it too much and it goes farther. *USUALLY* it can't do both.
Look at the 9mm HST and HST +P loads for example. (+P in this is actually real)
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
Additionally, it doesn't make sense it gives more expansion and more penetration.
Typically, you get one or the other. Increased speed opens the hollow point faster and slows it down. Or it opens it too much and it goes farther. *USUALLY* it can't do both.
Look at the 9mm HST and HST +P loads for example. (+P in this is actually real)
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
Cheapshooter
New member
It's not that there isn't 380 ammo from the boutique makers called +P. It's that there is no way of knowing how +P it is because there is no recognised standard.
Is it ammo loaded to the very edge of recognized pressure? Is it loaded 5% over recognised pressure? 10% maybe?
Like I said, let them print the pressure on the box, or at least publish it on their website so people who want to use it know exactly what they mean by +P.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
dgludwig quote:
What I do not understand if you do not want to use a particular ammo then don't. Why the argument, this is ridiculous. Yes, PrecisionOne did come out with a higher pressure ammo after the time time frame of the Shooting the Bull report. Which he rated at the top. About 75fps faster and you can feel the slight increase.
They make two type of 380 defense. One is their standard load and one is a higher pressure load that they define as Plus P. Use what ever terminology you want to differentiate the difference. Do not like PLUS, then use what you want.
If you do not want to shoot it then for God Sake don't. This is so simple it is downright ridiculous. Get over it. Buy what the heck you want. No one is stopping you.
I will shoot what is best for me and my Carry guns, too bad if you do not agree. (and I shoot them a lot)
You might actually try it out and actually shoot some of it.
What I do not understand if you do not want to use a particular ammo then don't. Why the argument, this is ridiculous. Yes, PrecisionOne did come out with a higher pressure ammo after the time time frame of the Shooting the Bull report. Which he rated at the top. About 75fps faster and you can feel the slight increase.
They make two type of 380 defense. One is their standard load and one is a higher pressure load that they define as Plus P. Use what ever terminology you want to differentiate the difference. Do not like PLUS, then use what you want.
If you do not want to shoot it then for God Sake don't. This is so simple it is downright ridiculous. Get over it. Buy what the heck you want. No one is stopping you.
I will shoot what is best for me and my Carry guns, too bad if you do not agree. (and I shoot them a lot)
You might actually try it out and actually shoot some of it.
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My primary concealed carry is a 1st generation Ruger LCP. I carry a spare mag also and both mags are loaded with 90 Hornady Critical Defense ammo. I can carry it in the most minimal of acceptable public clothing (t-shirt and elastic waist shorts in my case) and it's no heavier than a decent set of keys.
Even my smallest 9mms such as the P365, Glock 43, Ruger LC9S Pro, etc. are too heavy for this and typically require a belt for pocket carry or IWB. And if I am going to go to the trouble of carrying a heavier gun such as one of these, I'd just assume IWB a full size gun which isn't really much different for me.
Carrying concealed is not the same thing as a police officer carrying a gun. The concepts behind use of a gun are different so I don't need to meet their requirements. To me, concealment is more important than the idea that a larger caliber can perform better than a smaller one. That means I am more apt to actually have a gun vs leaving it at home due to the inconvenience of concealing it. That's just reality folks.
I'd even be okay carrying a reliable 22LR pistol.
Chew on that armchair commandos.
To the OP, I think if your wife can handle the size/recoil aspect of the LCP she will be perfectly fine with it. I am not a fan of over pressure 380 loads though, and even Buffalo Bore's standard pressure stuff is really stout. The aforementioned Hogue slip-on grip is fantastic on this gun, though it does make it a lot thicker and "stickier" coming out of the pocket. I learned to mitigate the effects of a small gun's recoil so I don't need it or use it, but I see where others could certainly benefit from it.
Try out some Hornady Critical Defense 90gr ammo. It works really well in my tests and others as well.
I can shoot my LCP accurately (fist sized groups at up to around 20 feet or so.
Even my smallest 9mms such as the P365, Glock 43, Ruger LC9S Pro, etc. are too heavy for this and typically require a belt for pocket carry or IWB. And if I am going to go to the trouble of carrying a heavier gun such as one of these, I'd just assume IWB a full size gun which isn't really much different for me.
Carrying concealed is not the same thing as a police officer carrying a gun. The concepts behind use of a gun are different so I don't need to meet their requirements. To me, concealment is more important than the idea that a larger caliber can perform better than a smaller one. That means I am more apt to actually have a gun vs leaving it at home due to the inconvenience of concealing it. That's just reality folks.
I'd even be okay carrying a reliable 22LR pistol.
Chew on that armchair commandos.
To the OP, I think if your wife can handle the size/recoil aspect of the LCP she will be perfectly fine with it. I am not a fan of over pressure 380 loads though, and even Buffalo Bore's standard pressure stuff is really stout. The aforementioned Hogue slip-on grip is fantastic on this gun, though it does make it a lot thicker and "stickier" coming out of the pocket. I learned to mitigate the effects of a small gun's recoil so I don't need it or use it, but I see where others could certainly benefit from it.
Try out some Hornady Critical Defense 90gr ammo. It works really well in my tests and others as well.
I can shoot my LCP accurately (fist sized groups at up to around 20 feet or so.
You have recited countless times as to how many countless rounds you've sent downrange; the implication being that others don't, as evidenced by the above disparaging quotation. Many of us do shoot a lot and we rely on our own individual experiences in forming opinions, much the same as you do. Opinions are what they are; we all have them, but they aren't always facts. Shouting them louder doesn't make them any truer.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Tailgator, I never shot anything but standard ammo through all my LCP's. All cracks, splits, etc. were all from round count. There gets to be a certain point IMO that they will just go under with constant pressure. I don't think most folks shot them as often as I like to shoot the small pocket guns. The good news is that Ruger continued to replace them all the time. My personal belief is to start monitoring them starting around 1500 rds. I had one go to 2200. One guy I know reported 3.000 but that seems to be a anomaly.
I did not mean to come across like I was knocking them. All mine were very reliable with all kinds of ammo. (other than some WWB) I shot at the beginning. I still have a LCP Gen 2. although I only use it for a truck, fishing gun etc.
If you like the LCP, I would not worry about it. Just monitor for any signs of cracks etc. And One thing I truly believe in, is changing out the recoil springs on a regular schedule. I have at least 6 or 7 in my drawer as we speak. And I would try and go with the heaviest spring that will shoot your ammo. I also have steel guide rods. Some say the plastic are not affected, but they do get chewed up.
Have fun with, train often. Safe shooting my Friend.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Good luck with the Hurricane. Be safe.
Your 238 is a class act. I remember many years ago, there was a group of guys that all owned the 238 and would meet once a week for some friendly competition. The are very nice shooters.
Your 238 is a class act. I remember many years ago, there was a group of guys that all owned the 238 and would meet once a week for some friendly competition. The are very nice shooters.