Ruger LC9s Pro

hoss1969 said:
No different than taking the doors off your jeep.
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I think it's a liability issue.

If you're in a defensive shooting, the prosecutor can claim that you intentionally removing a safety feature proves you're reckless, and a jury that knows nothing about guns might be inclined to believe them.

If you have a ND, well, you're already in trouble, but showing that you altered the gun to remove the LCI is just going to make it worse.
 
Good grief enough

All this business about a manual safety. Just leave it in the off position. It's better to have it and not use it then not have it and need it.

Pico
 
All this business about a manual safety. Just leave it in the off position. It's better to have it and not use it then not have it and need it.

Pico
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Another misnomer. If your gun has a manual safety, you need to use it and train ALOT with it. Otherwise carry a gun that doesn't have one.
 
I'm a lawyer, so I acknowledge that I'm a mite paranoid, but I have zero intention of ever disabling or removing safety features on a firearm. I'll simply buy models that don't have the safety features I don't want, stock.

If you ambulance chasers stop twisting the truth around in favor
of the criminal. There would be no issues about removing disconnects
and such.
 
The loaded chamber indicator, manual safety, and mag disconnect are the reasons I bought the LC9s and an SR9. I hardly qualify as an amateur since Ive been shooting for over 25 years and reload my own ammo to shoot more

I have to laugh at those who feel the safety is such a bad thing. How many people have been hurt or killed because they had a safety? Now how many have been because the DIDNT? Find me one where a safety caused a death or injury and I'll show you 100 where the absence of one did

Who here thinks to press the brake before shifting into gear? Me neither. Repetition makes it instinct. Every night, I draw and unsafe both my sr9 and lc9 100 times. Takes less than 5 minutes. The motion is so ingrained that I do it when I pick up my beretta 92, which has a backwards safety from the rugers. But that's not a defensive gun so it's not a big deal

Safety-less weapons are marketed to those who don't want to take the time to practice and learn their weapons. The best shooters in the world have had negligent discharges. You think you can't?

And please don't start with the "a safety breeds complacently because you rely on them" nonsense. An unsafe idiot with a gun is gonna be that way with or without a safety.
 
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Safety-less weapons are marketed to those who don't want to take the time to practice and learn their weapons. The best shooters in the world have had negligent discharges. You think you can't?
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I could care less about whether you personally choose to use a firearm with a safety. But the quoted comment is pretty hilariously stupid.
 
I could care less about whether you personally choose to use a firearm with a safety. But the quoted comment is pretty hilariously stupid.
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What's so stupid about it? It's the truth. Look at the "my safety is between my ears" and "my finger is my safety" crowd. Do you buy chainsaws or lawn mowers without a cutoff? Do you think "must press brake" before you sift from gear? With 10 minutes a day, a person can train to instinctively use the safety.

And the whole "a safety can get you killed" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You would have to search far and wide and go back probably decades to find me ONE case where a safety got somebody killed. I can find a dozen deaths or injuries in the last 6 months where a safety would have prevented them. And those are only the cases that make the paper.

Somebody here referred to the safety version of the LC9S as the "amateur" gun. Please!

And the Glock "Safe action trigger" isn't a safety. Glock markets them so people FEEL the gun has one, but it doesn't. 5.5 pounds of trigger pull and BOOM.

The odds of actually getting into a SD shooting are so high. A safety isn't gonna get you killed.
 
What's so stupid about it? It's the truth. Look at the "my safety is between my ears" and "my finger is my safety" crowd. Do you buy chainsaws or lawn mowers without a cutoff? Do you think "must press brake" before you sift from gear? With 10 minutes a day, a person can train to instinctively use the safety.
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The very act of using a chainsaw or mower requires you to be moving them while the blade is spinning. Trips and falls or drops happen and if that blade didn't stop automatically it could seriously cut you.

A dropped firearm shouldn't go off unless something is seriously wrong mechanically. Unless you're actively shooting, there is no reason a firearm should be out of its holster, even further reducing the chances of an accidence (or more appropriately negligence). If you're in a habit of having your finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be, with or without that safety you're likely to have a problem. It may take longer with the safety, but you're still engaging in reckless behavior.

I can find a dozen deaths or injuries in the last 6 months where a safety would have prevented them.
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Please post links to those stories.

The odds of actually getting into a SD shooting are so high. A safety isn't gonna get you killed.
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I think you mean low, and I would agree about those odds. That doesn't mean I want a firearm with a safety, nor do I consider myself dangerous for not having one. A click and no boom is a bad thing. A well trained person with a safety? Of course that person will likely be fine. But a lot of folks buy a gun and put it in a box and maybe get it out once a year. Again, I'm not preaching you shouldn't have a safety, but I don't see where offering options to the market, which obviously wants them given sales with other companies, is a bad thing.

And to make a claim that people who use firearms without safeties are too "lazy" to learn those weapons is just laughable when people like Jerry Miculek are out there rocking revolvers, Todd Green is running DA/SA or LEM, and people like Chris Costa, Travis Haley, Rob Pincus, Larry Vickers, etc, etc, are using Glocks or M&Ps. The people will fire more in a year than many shooters will in a lifetime.
 
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I got into this debate a few years ago and posted about 6. Not gonna do the research now. You can probably find the post if you want to, but your just gonna say those people excerised poor trigger discipline. And they did. And that's my point. People screw up. And yeah, I meant odds are low. But odds are much higher that the "some people buy a gun just to leave it in their sock drawer" crowd, who put no time into their training, need all the help they can get.

And I don't know all the names you mentioned, but I do know vickers, Miculek, and Pincus. Vickers is the real deal. Miculek is a hell of a shooter who sure knows how to shoot. Pincus is a goof. What did he do, 3 years as a cop in some small town before becoming God of the Mall Ninjas? And what all them have in common is they get paid by the gun companies. Imagine if miculek showed up at an event with a Ruger on his hip? Never gonna happen. Like tiger woods with Nike.
 
Homerboy said:
I got into this debate a few years ago and posted about 6. Not gonna do the research now. You can probably find the post if you want to, but your just gonna say those people excerised poor trigger discipline. And they did. And that's my point. People screw up. And yeah, I meant odds are low. But odds are much higher that the "some people buy a gun just to leave it in their sock drawer" crowd, who put no time into their training, need all the help they can get.

And I don't know all the names you mentioned, but I do know vickers, Miculek, and Pincus. Vickers is the real deal. Miculek is a hell of a shooter who sure knows how to shoot. Pincus is a goof. What did he do, 3 years as a cop in some small town before becoming God of the Mall Ninjas? And what all them have in common is they get paid by the gun companies. Imagine if miculek showed up at an event with a Ruger on his hip? Never gonna happen. Like tiger woods with Nike.
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Miculek gets paid. The others might get kickbacks but they chose those guns first because of their preferences not because of that fact. The kickbacks are just a bonus. None of this changes the fact that your comment about people who don't have safeties on their guns don't want to put time into learning their weapons is unsubstantiated and also insulting to a lot of great shooters on this forum and those not on any forums.
 
Vickers doesn't get paid to do his Daniel defense commercials? And I was responding to the "safeties are for amateurs". And you said yourself that many people buy a gun to keep in a drawer and take out once a year. How much training you think they put in?

And kickbacks aren't a bonus. They're incentive to push a product to a receptive and easily swayed audience. What makes Pincus such an authority? His ROTC days of his 3 years as a small town cop? Vickers is the real deal, I know, but he's a man with small children and he's parlayed his extensive experience into a well paying gig. Nothing wrong with that, but I'll take his opinion with a grain of salt.
 
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And kickbacks aren't a bonus. They're incentive to push a product to a receptive and easily swayed audience. What makes Pincus such an authority? His ROTC days of his 3 years as a small town cop? Vickers is the real deal, I know, but he's a man with small children and he's parlayed his extensive experience into a well paying gig. Nothing wrong with that, but I'll take his opinion with a grain of salt.
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If you look 3 feet above your head you'll see my point. Best of luck.
 
I see the point your trying to make. But your own words negate them. Many people buy a gun to out in your drawer and take once a year, you said. So yeah, learning to sweep a safety isn't gonna happen with them.

Course, people like that need all the help they can get so they don't shoot somebody by accident.
 
I see the point your trying to make. But your own words negate them.
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How do my own words negate all the serious shooters that don't use safeties? Or are they still unwilling to take the time to practice and learn as you said before?
 
I have no problem with serious expert shooters using a safety-less gun. I have a huge problem with a barely skilled shooter getting a glock because the cops carry them or because Pincus tells them to. And plenty of those expert shooters shoot a 1911 too. So the safety isn't such an issue.
 
So some people that don't use safeties are still skilled, but others aren't. Okay then.

My main point was that the type of weapon matters less than the shooter. Using a gun with a safety doesn't make you an amateur, nor does using a gun without a safety make you an amateur. Your own dedication to the sport/martial art determines your skill.
 
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