Ruger Hawkeye catastrophic failure......

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Hi Corn
Not say you did any of this below.
Some other things that cause overpressure are:
1.) Case Length - What length was your cases (before you loaded them) and had they been trimed to length? I have seen a gun explode (alot worse then yours) where the shooter failed to trim his cases. He had only just started reloading 6 months before and I was looking at his cases and we messured a few and they were really long, I asked him about trimming his cases and he had no idea about what I was talking about. LOL
2.) Bullets Touching Lands - I see so many people saying they are shooting maximum loads with the bullets seated out so they are touching the lands. There was an article years ago where they were measuring and testing ammo that where loaded so the bullets were around 50 thou off the lands and other ammo were the bullets were loaded out to touch the lands. The ammo with the bullets that were touching the lands were averaging around 5000 PSI more (and up to around 10000 PSI) then the bullets that were 50 thou off the lands. Having the bullets touching the lands causes a spike in pressure that can become dangerous when you are loading "HOT" ammo. If you are loading ammo with the bullets touching the lands and you are having pressure signs try seating the bullet to be 50 thou off the lands (I load nearly all my ammo so the bullet is around 50 thou off the lands).
 
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you can do a burn test on the powder and see if it burns the same as the othere

take 10gns of both and but them in a pile and lite them an see how long they burn if one burns up faster i would say that they arnt the same
 
Man sorry that happened to you and your nice rifle. Good thing you werent hurt. It sure sounds like there is something fishy with the powder you bought. Definitely save it and get a lawyer involved. Hopefully that way if the powder company is putting out dangerous stuff it will be brought to light and they will have to stop. Also getting the rifle fixed or repaired could be tricky because it was a handload so you may have to go after hogdon for that as well. I would look into a lawyer. I'm not saying sue the pants off and get rich, just get reimbursed for your damaged rifle and get the dangerous powder issue addressed. Maby you can keep other people from getting hurt or even killed in the future.
 
While I have no way to rule out the possibility a contraminated can came from Hogdon,I have been using Hogdon powder as my first choice powder since the late 60's.
I have also been an avid reader of all things firearms.
In my opinion Hogdon is a fine powder company .They have provided excellent products to us,and I have never heard of them putting out a dangerous can of powder.I am not saying it is impossible,but it is wrong to start with the implications that I just read.
 
I opened the can, loaded some rounds and put it away again, I know for certain it was not contaminated or mixed by accident on my end.
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Thanks for clearing that up as I read the thread it was my first thought perhaps kids or others had access to reloading area spilled different containers and cleaned up depositing all in one can, as a father I've seen some strange stuff through the years.;)

I've used Hodgons for years always check new cans as I open, Please keep us updated on this one very interested in outcome. Happy no injuries occurred.
 
I have used Hodgdon powder for years, don't have a problem with them.
Did a burn test last night, unopened H335 and the can I loaded from.....did not burn the same, and the one I loaded from was giving off some funky colors too.
I really do think they make excellent stuff, but I would like to try and find out what happened here.
I don't want to get a lawyer involved, or drag anyone through the mud.
I'm really glad it didn't go any worse and I'm sitting at home typing this right now instead of from a hospital bed....so things are going ok I'd say.
 
Just got off the phone with Hodgdon, very polite, sending in the rest of my ammo so they can test it......no known issues with that lot of powder.
 
So they wanted you to send them your loaded rounds? Thats cool. Does that mean they are going to fire them in a pressure tester? I am interested in seeing what they come up with.
 
cornbush said:
Just got off the phone with Hodgdon, very polite, sending in the rest of my ammo so they can test it......no known issues with that lot of powder.
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I would not let all of my evidence on any issue out of my possession.
 
Unless Ruger wants to keep your rifle for testing, etc., they probably won't replace it because it was handloaded ammo that was being used, regardless of whether the powder was contaminated when purchased.

If the contamination occurred at Hodgdon's they may have other complaints, but they probably won't tell you so and you may not be able to prove in court that the powder was contaminated before you got it. They may just replace the can of powder, telling you that they want to be a good neighbor, but that they don't accept any responsibility.

This could be a case of terrorism, or a disgruntled worker trying to hurt the company. You may never find out what really happened.

If you're 100% sure that there was no way the powder could have been contaminated by you, or others in your family, or someone who had a grudge against you, it might be wise to check with the store where you bought it to see if there are other cans of powder with the same lot number that you could buy and have that can checked right there in the store. You need witnesses!!!

I agree with the person who mentioned not giving away all of the evidence. Keep enough to protect yourself, whether powder or loaded ammo.
 
I still have the remaining powder in the can.
I don't think anyone is going to buy me a new rifle, but I would like to know what Hodgdon finds out.
As far as Ruger is concerned, I could not be happier with the way the gun held together, I will definitely continue to support them by buying more of their products.
 
I agree with the person who mentioned not giving away all of the evidence. Keep enough to protect yourself, whether powder or loaded ammo.
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That was already planned, but Hodgdon didn't ask for it.

Apparently, their DOT-approved "return shipment" containers are no longer allowed (since no one can control what the idiot on the consumer side puts in it).

So, they asked for the loaded ammunition. It serves two purposes:
1. Testing with the exact components used in the failure.
2. They get their powder sample in a different type of DOT-approved container - small arms cartridges.


check with the store where you bought it to see if there are other cans of powder with the same lot number that you could buy and have that can checked right there in the store. You need witnesses!!!
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With the stock turnover rate of the stores here, it's very unlikely that they would still have any (and really serves no purpose here). Even if we found more of the same powder on the merchant's shelves... It would be incredibly difficult to use that "evidence" for anything useful.



Cornbush isn't "out to get" anyone. If he was, this thread never would have been started. Stop number one would have been a lawyer. Stop number two would have been a certain local gunsmith that has a reputation for wanting 'his slice of the pie'. That didn't happen.

Cornbush just wants his rifle back, and an answer to the running question: What's up with this powder?


Some other things that cause overpressure are:
1.) Case Length
2.) Bullets Touching Lands
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That lot of cases is running what I would consider an 'average' length. They vary by a couple thousandths, but are all under max length and don't have thick necks. (I can't remember the exact length he had written down, so I'm not going to guess.)

The bullets weren't touching the lands.
 
Clifford L. Hughes

Dear Cornbush:

I once blew up a Mexican Mauser short action 98 (caliber .243 Win.). It resulted in damage simular to yours. One difference it that the brass case melted and welded the bolt to the reciever. I sent the rifle to P.O. Akley (deceased). He replaced the bolt and I was back in business. It's unlikely that your action has stretched. What I would do is box it up and send it to Ruger; they will repair it if it is safe to do. They reblued and replaced the grip on a fifty year old Single Six for me free. Let me know what Ruger tells you.

Semper Fi.

Gunny Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
Talked to Hodgdon again, let them know the tracking number for the ammo, said I should hear from them early next week sometime.
I'll post any results or findings from the testing.
 
case head failure

.

Cornbush --

I'm glad you are OK. That M77 did a good job of handling this case
head failure.

Hodgdon doesn't need your powder can. They can break down one of
the rounds to check the powder. And I'm sure they will.

It definitely sounds like a powder problem if the rifle fired normally
with factory ammo. If it was H335 there is no way a normal case
could have blown like that with a case full of H335 and a 40 grain
bullet. Your description of the powder makes it highly suspect.

What you are up against here is that what you are describing could
very easily happen when a shooter empties his powder measure of
(fast burning) powder back into the wrong canister. It's happened
many a time. It could also be a factory screw up. But it would be
a tough case to make.

good shooting, dxr

.
 
On another thread over in General Discussions,the topic was a negligent discharge of a mini-14 at a gunshow.One of the STAFF here at TFL related how a firearm on his table was secretly loaded with a live round while on his table by someone at the gunshow.
These days,ANYTHING can happen.
I suggest we stick with the facts,and be very reluctant to fill in the blanks with assumptions.
 
Actually it may not be that tough of a case if one were feeling litigious. It is entirely forseeable that someone might open a can of their stuff (being poorly sealed as all powder cans are) and mix another powder inside while at the store. It doesn't matter that Hodgdon may not have done it themselves. If following justice Learned Hand's formula for liability you could show 1. that there is a probability that someone might mix the powders at the store 2. that if it happened potentially deadly consequences would result and 3. there is only minimal burden of improving the seal on a powder can but hodgdon neglected to do it anyway.

Since you were hurt and your gun was destroyed you would actually have a pretty good case. Or atleast everything I learn in lawschool tells me that you would. It may not hurt to have a lawyer "ask" them to replace your rifle and pay your doctor bills. Thats why the government forces them to purchace expensive liability insurance. It may also goad them into improving the lousy seal on powder cans so that none of us have to suffer the same fate you did.
 
I'm not a lawyer
Where you are coming from is part of the problem with lawyers.Near as I can tell,Cornbush isn't looking to sue anyone.Lawyers want to stir up litigation for a percentage.
It remains to be seen how Hogdon and Ruger handle this.Worst case,no help,the OP said its a $600 rifle.That and any medical bills are the actual damages,likely a small claims sum.
I have no reason to doubt Cornbush's story.I do not know what is true.It is just as possible,to me,that there was an unknown problem in Cornbush's posession.
It is unknown.That does not mean Hogdon is guilty because it is a successful business.
FWIW,I had a night time no light bicyclist hit my Bronco when I turned left in front of him.He plead guilty in court to his error.I came out clean.He caved my fender,hood,blew out my windshield,and tore up my dash board.Damage to my Bronco was $800.I let it go.He was OK,it was OK.Things happen.
If you want to kill shooting,relentlessly pursue litigation against the folks who provide for us.
Hogdon has been a great service to shooters for a long,long time.
No offense meant to the OP,but ALL of us,at one time or another,have made errors we were adamantly certain were impossible,myself included.
 
I don't think Jake is suggesting he take them to court, I think he is just excited about all his new found knowledge he is paying thousands of dollars for.

While I have never dealt with Hodgdon I know that depending on who you talk too at a company you may get treated fairly you may not. It may bee that if they do not help him with replacing his rifle if they are at fault that a simple letter from a lawyer might get them too.

Again assuming it was their fault, and they are unwilling to help. But from what some of the other posters have said I would assume that they would at least help him with replacing his gun with a similar one.
 
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