Ruger GP100 22lr

G.wilikers - I am by no means an expert in this but my understanding is that they have been unable to make a suitable blow back design fixed barrel semi auto in any caliber above 32acp because of mass and inertia and the difficulty of making a small sized handgun with enough weight in the slide alone to make it work and be compact. I may have that wrong but that is my understanding.

Gdludwig - I have bench rest tested like that ALOT. I shoot 300 rounds a week with a number of handguns. Last time I tested a revolver against a semi auto was about three weeks ago. I shot a custom Tanfoglio single action semiauto with a six inch barrel in 45acp (this is a very nice gun). Against a gp100 with a 4 inch barrel. Shot both at 25 yards. Tanfoglio shot a 4 inch group. The gp100 shot a 2 inch group.
 
Tanfoglio shot a 4 inch group. The gp100 shot a 2 inch group.
Considering the Tanfoglio comes from the land of wine with lunch, it's not surprising. :)
I once bought one of the very early versions of their .45.
Accuracy was not one of its virtues.
Nor was reliability, come to think.
Although it sounds like that part has been improved, at least.
 
QUOTE: "... I am by no means an expert in this but my understanding is that they have been unable to make a suitable blow back design fixed barrel semi auto in any caliber above 32acp because of mass and inertia and the difficulty of making a small sized handgun with enough weight in the slide alone to make it work and be compact. I may have that wrong but that is my understanding..."

In addition to Hi-Points (as tallball observed), Astra made a series of blow-back operated, modestly sized, semi-auto pistols chambered in 9mm (Models 400/600/800).
 
Good points on both the Hi-Points and the Astras. I'm familiar with Hi-Points and note the large mass of the slide. That seems to validate my point about mass needed to sustain a blowback in centerfire. Pretty unwieldy but I guess it can be done. (And apparently done pretty cheaply.) I have heard anecdotal stories about the surprising accuracy of Hi-Points. Maybe there's something to that.
 
Makarov

The 9mm X 18 pistols typically and generically called 9mm Makarov are all fixed barrel semi auto pistols.
I have two "flavors" of the above. Both are accurate.

I consider the 9 X 18 the most "powerful" blow back design.

Excepting the Hi-point guns in 9 and 45.
 
Check out the referenced Astras, Radny97. Not much "mass" on these pistols and they are pretty "wieldy". The biggest drawback to these well-made Spanish pistols is that it takes a lot of muscle to draw the slide back. But, as blow-back action, 9mm pistols go, they are modest in size and weight.
 
You're right those Astras are pretty cool. Looks like they would be a pain to rack the slide but they don't have any heavy mass. They must handle the recoil with a very stiff spring. That could make them tough on recoil but maybe not. Anyone ever fired one?
 
QUOTE: "...I have 2 questions that the knowledge base here can help with....

1) Why would powder build up of the revolver be different than a semi? Is it the fact that the chamber is detached from the barrel and in a semi that build up occurs inside the barrel?

2) In the store, the sales person also matched the GP side by side with a MKIII ( also a 5.5" barrel). All things equal, should the revolver have greater accuracy due to the fact that the MK's barrel has the chamber included in that 5.5" where as the revolver is all barrel ( beyond forcing cone)?..."

Long-time, competitive pistol shooter (primarily Bullseye) Gil Hebard wrote an article for the 1961 issue of Gun Digest titled "Selecting A .22 Target Gun", the information of which still holds truths relevant today. Mr. Hebard opined:

"What is the best gun for competitive .22 target shooting? I am asked this question often. It is a difficult question to answer, and one that usually starts a hot argument among serious handgunners. I have my personal opinion, and so has everyone else. Put this question to a dozen reputable gun dealers or a dozen top shooters and you'll get a dozen different answers! Confusing? Definitely so! Add the copious and inexpert advice most beginners receive in the matter of gun selection (and this was before the internet!) and it's surprising indeed if they end up with a gun that is well suited to them.

"There are today (keep in mind this article was written over a half century ago) over 173 different models or variations (domestic and foreign) of .22 auto pistols, single-shots and revolvers available to American handgunners, the requirements for a target gun worth its salt in hot competition rule out perhaps 85% of these, so the problem of wise selection is somewhat simplified at the start. In the remaining 15% are to be found the real tools of the targetmen, and these I'll discuss.

"What are those guns in this 15% bracket which meet the requirements of the competitive .22 shooter? Here they are: Ruger Mark I, Hi-Standard Trophy, H-S Citation, H-S Tournament, Smith & Wesson Model 41, S & W Model 46, Colt Match Target, Browning Medalist, the custom automatics (modified factory models) as built by Clark, Shockey' Dinan, Chow, Giles, etc., and the foreign Hammerli-Walther and Beretta Olympic.

"Note that no revolvers are listed. This is not because there are no good revolvers. It is simply because revolvers are not quite as accurate; have a longer hammer fall (hence slower lock time); require cocking for each shot (handicapping timed and rapid-fire); (and) have a tendency toward leading which impairs accuracy...Practically all our best shooters have tried .22 revolvers at one time or another in their continual search for perfection, and all have returned to the semi-auto if for no other reason than they can score better with it..."

Though this article doesn't fully address or answer your questions (its primary focus was on Bullseye competition, the only real competitve shooting endeavor at that time) and whether you agree with Mr. Hebard or not, I found it interesting and at least partly applicable for today's shooters.
 
I tend to agree with Hebard's assessment as he is speaking of 22 caliber revolvers as compared to 22 semis. It's a whole different ball game once you move to center fire calibers. If you want to get good at shooting centerfire revolvers well, and do it cheaply, shooting 22lr revolvers is a great way to do that. It's worked very well for me.
 
QUOTE: "...I tend to agree with Hebard's assessment as he is speaking of 22 caliber revolvers as compared to 22 semis. It's a whole different ball game once you move to center fire calibers..."

It's the same game, just different players. As I opined earlier in this thread, there aren't many centerfire revolvers made that will prove more accurate than a target-oriented, centerfire semi-auto, be it a Colt Gold Cup/National Match (or its ilk), a Smith & Wesson Model 52, or a Smith 952 (or their ilk). I like revolvers every bit as much as I do autos and shoot them every bit as well off-hand. Practically speaking, one type is as good as the other in terms of accuracy for most people. Intrinsic accuracy between the two? Well, I'm not the one who first claimed that one had a "mechanical" advantage over the other. ;)

But, for me at least, this discussion (argument?) is becoming more and more circular. I've had my say so to speak and I'm going to take your earlier advice and "agree to disagree". Good shooting all.
 
There's no way I'd buy a 5.5-inch Ruger GP-100 in.22LR because at 42 ounces the gun is too dang heavy. (In my view, even for the .357 Magnum the GP-100 is too heavy.) But they have the equipment to crank them up and turn them out, so they do. Its older Speed-Six and Security-Six revolvers were fine and would have been a much better size for the small .22LR than the obnoxious GP-100.

My sister just got a Ruger SP-101 and the bloody thing weighed in at 30 ounces, but it seemed heavier because the balance is too front heavy.

I don't know why Ruger is packing so much steel into their pistols, but it's clearly aiming at shooting range shooters rather than outdoor shooters.



This S&W 317 is something I got in a trade.
At first, I wasn't crazy about it, but it grew on me.
It's light weight really appeals to me.







This is definitely a gun that will be in my bugout
bag, not as a primary gun, but as a secondary gun.



¤
 
Apples to oranges. Full size stanless GP100 to alloy SW 317 kit gun. Clearly aimed at shooting range shooters rather than outdoor shooters? Well ya.Obnoxious ?

Better comparison would be to a SW 617. Which is probably what it was intended to compete with.

Both are nice revolvers for their different intended purposes.
 
Well said, lunger. The full-size, s/s GP100 and the Smith 17/617 are revolvers that compete against each other and compete at the range against stationary targets, be they bullseyes or bowling pins. The range is their preferred milieu and, as such, neither are "obnoxious" but rather are superb choices for their appointed duties.
 
Yep.

Stargater if you are looking for an outdoors bug out gun from Ruger, try the 15 oz LCRx 3 inch. Comes with adjustable sights and that extra inch on the barrel for a better sight radius. Mine is always with me when I'm camping.
 
The S&W is a nice little carry and would take that over Ruger LCR .22 which is the competition for that little carry .
I'm a .22 junkie the GP100 looks like a must have in any collection , I have a couple of the SP101 early .22 that are 6 shot 4" full lug barrel could not hold a candle to the 617 but still had to have one or two .
I'm not a big fan of the new S&W with locks but own two lock 617 as beater target guns for me and my honey .
I have nice collection of pre-lock 617s and they are great guns and can't believe how much the price has gone up in the past few years on these guns .
I would love to see this new GP100 .22 in full lug barrel but the extra weight would not be so great in the 5.5 barrel .
It would be nice if ruger stoped writing all over there guns ... I don't need warnings stamped on my guns .
I'll grab one of these GP100's in the next few weeks just have to shop around a bit , I did see plenty of them on GB site .
What did you guys pay for yours ?
 
GP100 10 shot

I paid $630 + tax for mine.

Make sure you look it over good, better than I did. The first one I saw had bad gouges on the frame behind the cylinder. The one I bought, I failed to see a few things until I got it home. The trigger guard right side was never sanded, very rough, the front sight dovetail is cut too shallow making the sight too high, this made the rear sight near it's upper limit, the cylinder ratchet was poorly machined making rough DA pull and the hammer was not shaped evenly. Also reshaped firing pin to get it reliable with several brands of ammo.

I fixed eveything myself except for the front sight, just put on a Burris FF3 red dot.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the fit and finish ... Allmaost sounds like your buying a Taurus with the trigger modification .
I have only had to send one Ruger back was a .454 Alaskan and that was a problem with a cylinder crane .
My only problem with Rugers is the same as everyone else is the trigger , I usually change out springs and do a little polishing to smooth out the action .

Thanks

greg
 
apples

Full size stanless GP100 to alloy SW 317 kit gun. Clearly aimed at shooting range shooters rather than outdoor shooters? Well ya.Obnoxious ?
Not sure what you mean by that. I have a 317 Airlite that is in my pocket or my hunting vest every time I go afield. I started with a Ruger BearCat....a neat little gun....too heavy for my needs. The S&W is perfect. As a snubbie with a sub-two inch barrel, it requires practice but at about ten ounces loaded, it is a fine field/pocket gun.
Pete
 
[Quote:
Full size stanless GP100 to alloy SW 317 kit gun. Clearly aimed at shooting range shooters rather than outdoor shooters? Well ya.Obnoxious ?
Not sure what you mean by that. ../QUOTE]

Let me try to explain it to you .My response was to the above poster comparing a 317 Airlite to a ful size GP100 that he called obnoxious. And clearly aimed at shooting rangeshooters rather than outdoor shooters. My well ya because he stated an obvious fact. My response Obnoxious? What is obnoxious about a well made range revolver.

Nothing at all wrong with light weight kit guns. I own some myself.Apples to oranges because the serve a different purpose. Because you prefer one doesn't
Make the other obnoxious
 
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