Ruger Blackhawk 45 lc

I prefer the 7.5" barrel. I got the model that came with a 45acp cylinder as well as 45colt. I use the 45acp more often. It is quite accurate with either round. In fact, it is my most accurate centerfire handgun.

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I ran across a 7 1/2" 45 Colt this past summer in a LGS. I just did a quick look at it and loved the way it felt in my hand. I went back the next day with the intention of buying it but when I looked it over more closely than I had the day before, I discovered that whoever had owned it previously and done a "Bubba" cylinder throat job on it. I don't know what they used but 4 of the 6 cylinder throats were egg shaped and so bad that I was sure they couldn't be fixed. It was about the same vintage as what slammer shows. Too bad as I REALLY wanted that handgun. So the search continues for one .
 
m&p45acp10+1

Sorry if I sounded terse, but I was in a hurry yesterday...

What you have is not a Bisley...It is a .44SPCL 'Flat Top' which was a distributor special run...

IIRC, the frame is slightly smaller than the New Model Blackhawk/Super BH, and the grip frame is the old XR3 (not the current XR3-RED)...

The old XR3 grips will not fit your gun though, due to the locating pin having been moved...

Very nice gun!
 
I was looking at Stainless
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I don't know what exact model you are looking at but I have a Ruger Blackhawk Bisley model in stainless with a 5.5 inch barrel, might even consider selling it if you are interested.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
Do they still make the old balloon head cases? I've read these are necessary to squeeze 40 grains of black powder in.
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Howdy

No, balloon head cases have not been made for a long time.

On the left in this photo is an old Remington-UMC 45 Colt Balloonhead case. I don't know exactly when it was made, but I would guess sometime in the 1930s. I have two boxes of them. On the right is a modern solid head 45 Colt case made by Winchester. I cut them in half to show the interior construction. As you can see, the Balloon head case has more interior case capacity. By the way, the reason the modern case is so stained inside is that it has been fired several times with Black Powder.


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40 grains gets tossed around a lot as the powder charge used in the old 45 Colt rounds. But there is more to it than just case capacity as to whether or not 40 grains will fit in an old Balloonhead case or a modern solidhead case. First off, not all Black Powder weighs the same. It is not like modern powders where the manufacturers go to great lengths to keep the formula of the powders consistent over time, so that reloading data can be used for many years without worry of blowing something up. Black Powder is made by several different manufacturers today, and each of them varies their method of making the powder slightly, so that different brands actually weigh different amounts when you measure out the same volume and weigh them. I keep a table in my reloading notebook of the various weights of some of the more common charges I use and what they actually weigh. This data is a bit dated, Elephant is no longer manufactured.

The charge I use most often in both 45 Colt and 44-40 is 2.2CC. I use a volumetric powder measure to portion out my charges so that no matter which powder I use I will get a consistent amount of compression. More about that in a minute.

I use Schuetzen FFg most often these days, and you can see what my powder charge actually weighs. If I was still using Elephant, I would be very close to the 40 grain figure.

BlackPowderWeights_zps5bea048d.jpg





Compression is another factor to consider. Unlike modern Smokeless powders, Black Powder needs to have all the air removed from inside the case, so the bullet is seated directly on the powder. In addition, most Black Powder burns slightly better if the charge is compressed. I normally compress my charges about 1/16" -1/8" when I seat my bullets. However, it is possible to compress the powder more, and therefore cram more powder into the case.



A third factor to consider is whether or not a drop tube is used. A drop tube is a tube about two feet long. Sorry for how cluttered the background is in this photo, I took it in a hurry. The pistol is there to give some scale to show the size of the drop tube. By dropping the powder down the tube, gravity packs the powder more densely into the case. This usually results in more consistent accuracy. It also means that a few more grains of powder can fit into the case without increasing the volume of the powder.

Drop%20Tube_zpsv0vx6dya.jpg



For my normal Black Powder cowboy loads I do not use the drop tube. I don't need that kind of accuracy and using a drop tube slows down the process. I do use the drop tube for my 45-70 loads for my Sharps. If I were still using Elephant powder, and if I were to use a drop tube, I could probably fit 40 grains of powder into a modern case without increasing my compression.



If so, will they work in lever rifles? Someone on this forum keeps saying they won't and that's why they weren't made back in the day.
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You may be quoting me. If so, you are misquoting me. The article you refer to is a great article but one thing he does not mention is rim diameter. Study this photo of old 45 Colt cartridges. Observe the size of the rims. Compare them to the rim on the modern cartridge all the way on the right.

The cartridge all the way on the left is the original configuration of the 45 Colt cartridge the way it was made at the Frankford Arsenal. This particular round was made in 1874. It is odd looking because it uses a copper, not brass, case, and it uses the Benet style of inside priming. The crimps near the bottom hold the inside primed anvil plate in place. The rim on this round is only .503 in diameter. That is because the 45 Colt round was developed as a revolver round. The Colt Single Action Army ejector rod punched the empties out from the inside, no extractor claw was involved. All the rim had to do was prevent the case from being shoved into the chamber when struck by the primer.

A rifle on the other hand uses an extractor to extract the spent cases from the chamber, so the case needs a rim of considerable diameter for the extractor claw to grab.


45%20Colt%20old%20cartridges_zpsk8psgcmk.jpg





Here is a photo of the Benet primed Frankford Arsenal round, a Winchester Repeating Arms round, and an old 44-40 round. The rim diameter of the Benet round is .503. The Winchester rim is .505 in diameter. The rim on the 44-40 round is a whopping .525 in diameter. Both the Winchester round and the 44-40 round are probably balloon heads, I am not going to pull them apart to see. But the 44-40 round was designed as a rifle round, with a large enough rim for a rifle extractor to grab. It does not matter what the interior construction was, Balloon head or not, what is important is rim diameter for a rifle extractor to grab.


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I don't know about Colt patenting the 45 Colt round, if Paco says they did, then he is probably correct. But along with that one must consider that for a round to feed and extract reliably in a rifle, the case must be configured so the extractor can grab it.

Current SAAMI spec for the rim diameter of the 45 Colt is .512, current SAAMI spec for the rim diameter of 44-40 is .520. With the current rim configuration, there is no problem with rifle extractors grabbing the rim of a 45 Colt case.

Why didn't Winchester chamber their rifles for 45 Colt after the patent ran out? I can only speculate, but there probably was not much demand. The Winchester Centerfire Cartridges; 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 and 25-20 functioned perfectly in rifles. They were designed for them.

It was not until the advent of Cowboy Action Shooting in the 1980s that the old cartridges such as 45 Colt experienced a rebirth in popularity. By that time with the current configuration of the 45 Colt cartridge there was no reason not to chamber a rifle for it. In the old days if you wanted a revolver and a rifle that fired the same cartridge, you chose 44-40, 38-40, or 32-20. Today you can choose 45 Colt.

The rim diameter of my two boxes of Balloon head 45s is .510, not much under the current standard. If I were to load some up they would probably run fine through a modern rifle chambered for 45 Colt. Again, nothing to do with internal construction, it is the rim diameter that is important. No, I have not tried it because I don't own a rifle chambered for 45 Colt and I'm not going to run out and buy one just for that test. All my Winchesters and Marlins are chambered for 44-40 or 38-40.

His conclusion was that once dirty extraction became unreliable. I wonder if you could say the same about a dirty 44/40 lever rifle with balloon head case black powder ammo.
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I have fired thousands of rounds of 44-40 through my rifles, almost all of it loaded with Black Powder. 44-40 rounds tend not to get dirty from blowby because the brass at the case mouth is thinner than 45 Colt and therefor seals the chamber better than the thicker brass of 45 Colt. So the chambers tend to stay cleaner and less fouling gets into the action to gum up the works. So the question is kind of moot. 44-40 still runs better in most rifles than 45 Colt because of the issue of fouling. Obviously, if the rifle does get fouled, then extraction will be a problem, no matter what cartridge it is chambered for.


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By the way, while we are still talking about 45 Colt and its rim diameter, go back to that photo of all the old 45 Colt cartridges. Take a look at the round 2nd from right, next to the modern round. Notice how large the rim is. The rim diameter of that round is a whopping .538. Even bigger than a 44-40. That round was developed by the Army for the early double action service revolvers. They had extractors and the extractors tended to slip over the rims of the old 45 Colt round. So the Army developed those rounds for double action Colts like this:

NewService04_zpsc84b7a05.jpg



The rim of those rounds was so big they could not be chambered in a Colt SAA unless they were staggered in every other chamber. The rims would interfere with each other if one tried to seat them in adjacent chambers.
 
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As a matter of historical interest, Colt kept their cartridge rims rather small in diameter, to help them "not work" with multiple ejection guns. Hence, they did not work too well in repeating rifles, either.

The first box of .45 Colt ammunition I ever bought was Remington, headstamped REM-UMC, and had nickel plated and balloon head cases. I belive these were made just prior to WW II or so. I bought them around 1954. Western brand cartridges I bought at the same time had the copper plated bullet, plain brass cases, and were solid head cases.

Bob Wright
 
I have a pair of 45 lc Vaqueros and load them. I would like have a Blackhawk
As I think the new Vaquero won't take a high power load but the Blackhawk will.Jus wish they had them in Stainless.
 
JLK,

Did you look at the two links I provided earlier. Stainless Steel .45Colt Blackhawk models with 7.5" or 4 5/8" barrels. Both models in stock.

Dana
 
Geaux Tide said:
Remember, if you get the Blued version, the grip frame will be aluminum.
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You can likely get a blued steel grip frame from your local gunsmith, a take-off from an original Vaquero or Super Blackhawk. (The 4 5/8" and 5 1/2" Super Blackhawks have the XR3-RED grip frame.) Believe they can be ordered from Ruger, but come in the white.

Bob Wright
 
Talking blued and stock:

The large frame .45 Colt BH has alloy grip frame and ejector housing.
The medim frame .45 Colt Flattop BH has steel grip frame and ejector housing.

Even thought the large frame is slightly bigger it weighs quit a bit less than the flattop.
 
I have two blued flat tops and don't regard them as particularly heavy guns. I think there was something else going on with the choice of aluminum for the bigger grip frame models, the grip frames of which are not much bigger.
 
Interesting pics & discussion on the balloon head cases... I just ran across a Rem-UMC balloon head 44 Special, when wet tumbling a batch of old 44 Special brass the other day... I set it aside, so it didn't get loaded with the other solid head cases... kinda funny, when you take those old nasty blackened cases, & wet tumble them... they come out looking like brand new... I've got no idea how old, that shiny brand new looking ballon head case is :)
 
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