Ruger American, TC Arms Venture,Scary

The 7X57 was the first rimless cartridge with the . 473 rim diameter , Which is common to way more cartridges than steveNChunter listed . The 30-06 was probably the first one , so all it's offspring should be on that list too . Which should also list the .308 and all it's offspring .
 
Couldn't agree with steveNChunter more. Didn't winchester initially lose a lawsuit to Mauser over the model 70? And had to pay Mauser rights for the design.
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During WWI, the United States actually had to pay royalties to Mauser, for every Springfield we produced. The funds, however, were held in trust until after the war.


The 7X57 was the first rimless cartridge with the . 473 rim diameter , Which is common to way more cartridges than steveNChunter listed . The 30-06 was probably the first one , so all it's offspring should be on that list too . Which should also list the .308 and all it's offspring .
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When you get into cartridge lineage, things get really complicated, really quickly. And, most of the common knowledge "facts" are usually incorrect, or only partially correct.

For example, the United States' first official cartridge based on the Mauser dimensions was .30-03. The .30-06 came a few years later (shorter neck and case length, and intended to use a different spitzer bullet). And, contrary to popular belief, .270 Win, .280 Rem, and .35 Whelen are based on .30-03 - not .30-06.

The same goes for .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm. Although it's easy to say it's a shortened .30-06, it's actually a "stretched" .300 Savage. The .300 Savage, of course, was its own development, also based on the 7x57mm case (rather than .30-03 or .30-06).

No matter what you look at....
Most people, even P.P. Mauser, agree that modern bottleneck cartridge design all started with the French (:rolleyes:) and their 11mm Gras.
 
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I bought into the TC craze a few years ago, buying a used Encore at a gun show. The gun will shoot, mind you, but take the barrel off and look at the inside of the receiver, and it looks like something out of a sweatshop. Terrible finish for a gun of its price. I wish I'd saved my money and bought something else.

As to Ruger...one thing I loved about Ruger for years, was that they didn't jump on the bargain wagon with Remington, Browning, Winchester and everyone else who started churning out matte guns that looked like they'd been spray painted black and stuck in plastic stocks. You either got a beautiful wood-stocked, blued rifle, or a stainless/synthetic rifle. Fast-forward to now...and they've started marketing cheap junk rifles like everyone else. Will they shoot? Of course. Are they the type of firearm of by-gone years that you buy in your 20s and leave to your grandchildren? No...they're plumb near disposable. Axis, American, 710....nearly every company has its cheap knockoff.

And I'm not interested in any of them.
 
Thank you FrankenMauser, I couldn't recall which it was. Now, I remember reading that about the 03 Springfield in Chris Kyle's last book, American Gun. On a side note, I loved the great history in the book but didn't care for informal (to be generous ) writing style.
 
The 7X57 was the first rimless cartridge with the . 473 rim diameter , Which is common to way more cartridges than steveNChunter listed . The 30-06 was probably the first one , so all it's offspring should be on that list too . Which should also list the .308 and all it's offspring .
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The cartridges I listed only differ by caliber size. There may be other cartridges that share certain aspects/dimensions with the Mauser case, but if you look at all the dimensions of the case, you will find more differences than similarites. Compare the 6mm rem and .243 win, the .257 roberts and .25-06, the 7x57 and 7mm-08. Now try to form the brass from one to fit the other. The .308 and 06' families are very much different than the Mauser case.
 
Stillhunter...........if you do a little research on the web, as I did before I bought my Ruger American .308, it's a common line of thinking that Ruger did pull a lot of aspects together from various rifles and threw them together to make the American.

However, with that being said, I chose the American over many other rifles that I looked at.
 
Just seems odd to me, that all of a sudden these manufacturer,s can produce a rifle hundreds of dollars cheaper than they did before,in the same factory.

Ruger American $345-$375
Ruger Hawkeye $600-$675

Not picking on Ruger,just an example.

Wish someone would produce propane and gasoline the same way:D
 
They have simplified the machining. Think about the amount of machine work that goes into an American action VS a Mauser action. Price of stock. Price of finish.
 
In answer to a post above, cheap doesn't necessarily mean disposable. Especially when it's all one can afford. And plastic stocks may not be "pretty" but that's not a concern to me, function is, and the "cheapies" function just fine, especially the Ruger's and the Savages. And the plastic stocks are generally lighter, which serves a real purpose if you are carrying them in the field all day. As long as it works reliably and I can afford it, then I'll take it.
 
I just bought another one of those "Scary" Ventures a couple hours ago. $299 plus tax is hard to pass up on a guaranteed sub-moa rifle.
 
I paid $399 for my Venture last fall. It shot moa with American Whitetail ammo and just over half an inch with my handloads. Looked at the Ruger American and others but chose the Venture. Glad I did. Its a very nice shooter. The Venture and Icon bolt are exactly the same you just don't get a bolt disassembly tool with the venture. Don't need one though. I guess there is something to the 5R rifling because its been a shooter right out the box. I don't really care who copied who Im glad that when I decided to buy an inexpensive but quality rifle there were plenty to choose from.
 
I very rarely disassemble bolts. Carb cleaner gets shot through them pretty often though. Now you have me wanting to take my bolt apart just for the fun of it.;) To me, the quality of the Venture and the American are not even comparable. The stock on the American is junk. The stock on the Venture is actually a very good stock. They are offering the Venture in an impressive number of chamberings now. I guess the barreled actions on the two are comparable, but the stocks are light years apart. My .270WSM venture was a tack driver out of the box. My American is a tack driver, but I had to do a lot of work on it to make it shoot.
 
Was reading the marketing blurb by Remington on their 783 rifle. They borrowed quite a few ideas from their competitors and are damn proud of it. Got me to thinking how many economy rifles out there have triggers that look like a savage accutrigger.
 
Notice, no one has tried to copy the S&W I-Bolt.
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or the Chauchat.

Yeah, as long as it doesn't infringe an existing unexpired patent, I'm ok with any and all ripping off...even if it does, that's between them and the courts, not me.

P.S. What does the "I" in "I-Bolt" stand for, anyway?

$299 plus tax is hard to pass up on a guaranteed sub-moa rifle.
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True, but I will continue to do so until it comes with a wood stock. Thank all that is holy, that I got an Icon whilst the gettin was good.
 
I am not all too fired up crazy about wood stocks. I have had too many problems with them over the years. Laminate is fine, but I am no fan of walnut.
 
Reynolds357,

Here's to hoping Hogue comes up with a left handed synthetic stock for a Ruger Hawkeye Long action.
 
Re

I don't know if Ruger is copying others bolt action design or not? But I do know they make the best revolvers I have ever put my hands on. I have an older super Redhawk I would never part with. But I have not purchased any newer Ruger firearms, although I'm sure their quality has gone down along with the rest of them? I would kinda like to get my hands on one of the TC compass or Venture rifles. Been hearing good things about them. I'm a bit of a stickler for accuracy though. I don't care if it's a deer rifle or not I expect groups well under an inch with good hand loads. So far Savage axis, Mossberg Patriot, and some Remington's that I sold years ago have not let me down. I took a chance on a weatherby vanguard S2 Sporter in 7mm08 and it shoots 2" groups at best and collects copper like the rifling was cut with a hacksaw. Not sure I'm ready to take a chance on a TC compass or not? Any of you guys own one and get better than 1" groups with it?
 
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