Ruger American, TC Arms Venture,Scary

S

Stillhunter

New member
A good friend of mine just bought a Ruger American in 270 win.He,s kinda excited about it,being his first high power rifle and all.
So he,s showing me this and that about it,when he pulls the bolt out and shows it to me,I said wait a minute,I,ll be right back. I go to vault and get my TC Venture,also in 270 win,pull the bolt out,compared them side by side and he says, WOW, their basically the same. We get to comparing them side by side and cosmetically from a distance it,s hard to tell them apart.The stocks even look similar.The Ruger,s trigger also looks very similar to the Mossberg,s LBA.
This is all just cosmetically,we didn,t actually strip em down.
But it just looks to me like most of the parts and pieces of these so called disposable rifles are coming from the same place,just tweaked a little differently,then shipped to the arms company,where their assembled and stamped made in USA. What do you think? Set me straight if I,m way off base here.:confused:
 
Ruger manufactures the American in-house (even the barrels), as does TC for the Venture.

There's only so much you can do to a bolt-action rifle, to simplify and lower the cost, before everyone ends up building almost the same thing.

That aside... I don't think the rifles look like clones, at all. Very similar? Yes. Identical? Nope.
 
They both have three lug bolts. They are both tube stock actions. They both have crappy looking finishes on the metal. Similar, but not identical by any means.
 
T/C and Ruger both make their rifles in-house.

They are very similar as the American borrows from the "best" features of the existing value rifles.

My Venture is a fine, well-made gun.
 
Not to stir the pot too crazy, but I had heard people saying that ruger has kind of been "ripping off" designs from other manufacturers the last few years. That's just somebody's opinion though, not really my opinion. I have never even handled a ruger, so I can't say.
 
Not to stir the pot too crazy, but I had heard people saying that ruger has kind of been "ripping off" designs from other manufacturers the last few years. That's just somebody's opinion though, not really my opinion. I have never even handled a ruger, so I can't say.
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...no more than every other rifle builder in the world "ripping off" Mauser designs, or Savage "ripping off" Marlin's trigger designs, or Mossberg "ripping off" Weatherby designs.
They're firearms. They operate in the same basic fashion, and we've explored a great deal of variations over the last 170 years. No matter what you do, it's going to be very similar to something else.
 
You copy what works. Notice, no one has tried to copy the S&W I-Bolt.;) But just about everyone makes a 1911.

And not as an attack on you, but if you are just repeating what other people say and have never handled one yourself, don't comment on it.
 
I guess it would be fair to say that both TC and Ruger are "ripping" off Beretta.
There are not but so many ways you can build a bolt action. The Mark V action is a unique action. With the exception of it all the others pretty much are a variant of 3 actions. Two of those are are so similar that they might as well be in one class.
 
Most bolt action rifles are a rip-off (to a certain degree) of either a Remington 700, or a Mauser, or both.

The Ruger American, Remington 783, Marlin X7, and Mossberg ATR are all ripping off Savage by using the same or similar barrel nut, recoil lug (except for the RAR), and trigger design.

I really could care less who's idea it all was originally, what matters for these rifles is using the best combination of ideas/designs to produce the best possible rifle while still meeting the target price point.
 
I read a book on all the action types that were tried, there are a lot.

So if you go to make a low cost gun you are going to check that out and you will find people come up with the same low cost solutions .

If its a good low cost it will go in a high cost rifle or a low one.

Nothing new under the sun in guns, its all been done one time or another.

No reason not to copy all the best ideas be it a low cost or a high cost.
 
I actually think the best design (and the popular design of the future) will be the locking lugs locking in the barrel and not the action itsself.
 
If you could look at disassembled engine parts from all the major auto manufacturers, would you expect to see more similarities or more differences?

Regarding the gun makers, if you expand your investigations to other types of guns, revolvers for instance, there would be far more differences in design between them.
You just happened to pick the bolt actions, with the least variables in design.
 
Reynolds357, I agree. I just hope they don't use the Remington 710/770 as a design platform. The Sauer 101 http://www.sauer-101.com is a better specimen of the "lugs locking in the barrel" design. The only thing I don't like about it is that the barrel, just like the 710/770, is pressed on. I understand that makes it easier to line up the slots for the locking lugs and get proper headspacing at the same time. But if they could somehow incorporate the Savage barrel but system into that design I'd be a bigger fan of it. If you want to change a barrel that's pressed in, you're going to have to heat the reciever, pull the barrel out, heat the receiver again, get the barrel pressed in and lined up, then heat and re-harden the receiver. I'd much rather have a rifle that I could do an easy at-home barrel swap with than a rifle that most gunsmiths don't even want to mess with.
 
I agree Steve, the barrel needs to be threaded if it is going to be easily re-barrelable. The design has the possibility to extremely strong and accurate. Howa is reportedly experimenting this design.
 
And speaking of ripping off Mauser, just how many cartridges are based on the 8mm x 57? Grab any half-decent reloading manual that has good dimensional diagrams and check out the dimensions around the head, web etc.
 
Couldn't agree with steveNChunter more. Didn't winchester initially lose a lawsuit to Mauser over the model 70? And had to pay Mauser rights for the design. Different manufacturers all trying to make a product for the same intended purpose, they tend to look alike.

That being said, I'm an auto mechanic and unless it's an engine I personally really like and am into, I couldn't tell the difference in manufacturer of today's engine internals.
 
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