Ruger Alaskan
- Thread starter turbotype87
- Start date
Failure to Fire
Had a FTF with Buffalo Bore ammo. This is what they sent me when I contacted them. Looks like there may be a design flaw in the gun.
FAILURES TO FIRE (FTF) OR “MIS-FIRES”
All too often, when pulling the trigger, the firing pin strikes and a deafening click emerges from your firearm. Few sounds are louder than hearing a “click” when you should have heard a boom/blast and felt recoil. After working with firearms all my adult life (40+ years at this writing) and being in the firearms industry, making millions of rounds of ammunition per year for the public, one of the most prevalent and misunderstood occurrences among the shooting public, are the actual causes of FTF’s.
Most shooters believe that when ammo fails to go bang, it is the fault of the ammo, after all, it was the ammo that failed to go bang and that very same gun has always gone bang before, so now that it made a click sound instead of a bang, ammo must be the culprit. Seems obvious, no? Well, the facts just are not so!
In relation to the above paragraph, let’s discuss firing mechanisms, better known as guns/firearms. Firearms have several moving parts that all have to be within a certain tolerance, working together, in a split second, to give a reliable firing pin/primer strike. Some firing systems are simple and others are complex, but all firing mechanisms are far more complex than ammo which consists of a stationary primer, seated into stationary brass, with stationary powder and a stationary bullet, seated within. Ammunition has no moving parts, unless it ignites. The ammunition is relying on the much more complex firing mechanism to ignite it.
After spending decades researching and learning the intricacies of FTF’s, I’ve discovered that although the ammo did not go bang, and it appears to be the fault of the ammo, in 98% of the cases, (98% is not an exaggeration) that is simply not true. The much more complex firing mechanism is normally the culprit.
Let’s look at some current and very commonly flawed firing systems.
1. Ruger Redhawk:
This is probably the most prevalently flawed firing system and generator of FTF’s currently on the market. All iterations of the Redhawk or Super Redhawk have the same hammer to frame to transfer bar problem. Anytime a transfer bar is being utilized, all other aspects of the firing mechanism must work very well to overcome the difficulties imposed by the transfer bar. The Redhawk is plagued with hammer to frame to transfer bar tolerance problems. While most Red hawks will fire most brands of primers most of the time, many Redhawks will FTF with at least one brand of primer, once in a while. Well, “once in a while” with one or two brands of commercial primers is a disaster waiting to happen, especially when the buyer of factory ammo, has no idea what brand of primer has been used to manufacture said ammo. Normally, when a Redhawk FTF’s, the hammer contacts the frame prematurely and thus insufficient energy impacts the transfer bar, because that energy went into the frame via the hammer to frame tolerance, or lack thereof. The simple solution is to remove enough (normally .020 inch) from the hammer face, where it contacts the frame. This allows the portion of the hammer that contacts the transfer bar, to hit the transfer bar more fully before contacting the frame, thus providing more strike energy to the firing pin, through the transfer bar. A story best illustrates how common this problem is with Red hawks. About five years ago, I purchased a new 4 inch Redhawk chambered in 44 mag. On rare occasion it would FTF with CCI # 350 primers, when I fired it in single action mode, but in double action mode, it would FTF much more often. (The CCI # 350 primer is made within industry standards, so don’t go blaming the primer) I took it to a local Missoula gun smith named Matt Brainard. (406-549-3249) When I walked into his shop with the new Redhawk in hand, Matt looked at it and with no input from me, said “having ignition problems”? That’s right, FTF’s are common enough with Redhawks, that Matt had a good idea why I brought the revolver in before I said anything. Matt machined roughly .020 inch from the hammer face, where it contacts the frame, allowing the hammer to impact the transfer bar with more force and that Redhawk has never had another FTF.
As if all the above tolerance problems with the Redhawks firing mechanism isn’t enough, Redhawks chambered in 454 Casull suffer from yet one more malady. 454 Casull ammo is made utilizing a small rifle primer. Yet Ruger makes the 454 versions of their Redhawk with the same diameter firing pin as the 44mag. and 45 colt chambered versions and 44 mag. and 45 colt ammo utilizes a large pistol primer. Small rifle primers, by design, require more strike energy or at least a more focused area of pin impact, than large pistol primers. So, when Ruger chose to use the larger diameter firing pin, to ignite the small rifle primer utilized in 454 Casull ammo, they handicapped the firing mechanism yet further. The larger diameter firing pin tends to cover too much surface area of the small primer and this big foot print spreads the pin-strike-energy outward too much, instead of inward, into the primer. The result is FTF’s with some brands of small rifle primers. Generally, the above discussed cure will solve this problem, but not always and enterprising and knowledgeable gunsmiths like Hamilton Bowen, sell a longer firing pin and heavier main spring for the Redhawk, which truly solves the problem. Gee, why would Hamilton Bowen have designed a longer firing pin and stronger main spring, if there was not a problem with the firing mechanism in the Redhawk?
Remember, we are discussing only the firing mechanism of all Redhawk iterations. Aside from problems with the Redhawks firing design, I love the Redhawk revolvers and I own several of them, including one standard Redhawk that was converted to 500 Linebaugh by Dave Clements, which also required modifications to the firing mechanism to be 100% reliable in double action mode.
Had a FTF with Buffalo Bore ammo. This is what they sent me when I contacted them. Looks like there may be a design flaw in the gun.
FAILURES TO FIRE (FTF) OR “MIS-FIRES”
All too often, when pulling the trigger, the firing pin strikes and a deafening click emerges from your firearm. Few sounds are louder than hearing a “click” when you should have heard a boom/blast and felt recoil. After working with firearms all my adult life (40+ years at this writing) and being in the firearms industry, making millions of rounds of ammunition per year for the public, one of the most prevalent and misunderstood occurrences among the shooting public, are the actual causes of FTF’s.
Most shooters believe that when ammo fails to go bang, it is the fault of the ammo, after all, it was the ammo that failed to go bang and that very same gun has always gone bang before, so now that it made a click sound instead of a bang, ammo must be the culprit. Seems obvious, no? Well, the facts just are not so!
In relation to the above paragraph, let’s discuss firing mechanisms, better known as guns/firearms. Firearms have several moving parts that all have to be within a certain tolerance, working together, in a split second, to give a reliable firing pin/primer strike. Some firing systems are simple and others are complex, but all firing mechanisms are far more complex than ammo which consists of a stationary primer, seated into stationary brass, with stationary powder and a stationary bullet, seated within. Ammunition has no moving parts, unless it ignites. The ammunition is relying on the much more complex firing mechanism to ignite it.
After spending decades researching and learning the intricacies of FTF’s, I’ve discovered that although the ammo did not go bang, and it appears to be the fault of the ammo, in 98% of the cases, (98% is not an exaggeration) that is simply not true. The much more complex firing mechanism is normally the culprit.
Let’s look at some current and very commonly flawed firing systems.
1. Ruger Redhawk:
This is probably the most prevalently flawed firing system and generator of FTF’s currently on the market. All iterations of the Redhawk or Super Redhawk have the same hammer to frame to transfer bar problem. Anytime a transfer bar is being utilized, all other aspects of the firing mechanism must work very well to overcome the difficulties imposed by the transfer bar. The Redhawk is plagued with hammer to frame to transfer bar tolerance problems. While most Red hawks will fire most brands of primers most of the time, many Redhawks will FTF with at least one brand of primer, once in a while. Well, “once in a while” with one or two brands of commercial primers is a disaster waiting to happen, especially when the buyer of factory ammo, has no idea what brand of primer has been used to manufacture said ammo. Normally, when a Redhawk FTF’s, the hammer contacts the frame prematurely and thus insufficient energy impacts the transfer bar, because that energy went into the frame via the hammer to frame tolerance, or lack thereof. The simple solution is to remove enough (normally .020 inch) from the hammer face, where it contacts the frame. This allows the portion of the hammer that contacts the transfer bar, to hit the transfer bar more fully before contacting the frame, thus providing more strike energy to the firing pin, through the transfer bar. A story best illustrates how common this problem is with Red hawks. About five years ago, I purchased a new 4 inch Redhawk chambered in 44 mag. On rare occasion it would FTF with CCI # 350 primers, when I fired it in single action mode, but in double action mode, it would FTF much more often. (The CCI # 350 primer is made within industry standards, so don’t go blaming the primer) I took it to a local Missoula gun smith named Matt Brainard. (406-549-3249) When I walked into his shop with the new Redhawk in hand, Matt looked at it and with no input from me, said “having ignition problems”? That’s right, FTF’s are common enough with Redhawks, that Matt had a good idea why I brought the revolver in before I said anything. Matt machined roughly .020 inch from the hammer face, where it contacts the frame, allowing the hammer to impact the transfer bar with more force and that Redhawk has never had another FTF.
As if all the above tolerance problems with the Redhawks firing mechanism isn’t enough, Redhawks chambered in 454 Casull suffer from yet one more malady. 454 Casull ammo is made utilizing a small rifle primer. Yet Ruger makes the 454 versions of their Redhawk with the same diameter firing pin as the 44mag. and 45 colt chambered versions and 44 mag. and 45 colt ammo utilizes a large pistol primer. Small rifle primers, by design, require more strike energy or at least a more focused area of pin impact, than large pistol primers. So, when Ruger chose to use the larger diameter firing pin, to ignite the small rifle primer utilized in 454 Casull ammo, they handicapped the firing mechanism yet further. The larger diameter firing pin tends to cover too much surface area of the small primer and this big foot print spreads the pin-strike-energy outward too much, instead of inward, into the primer. The result is FTF’s with some brands of small rifle primers. Generally, the above discussed cure will solve this problem, but not always and enterprising and knowledgeable gunsmiths like Hamilton Bowen, sell a longer firing pin and heavier main spring for the Redhawk, which truly solves the problem. Gee, why would Hamilton Bowen have designed a longer firing pin and stronger main spring, if there was not a problem with the firing mechanism in the Redhawk?
Remember, we are discussing only the firing mechanism of all Redhawk iterations. Aside from problems with the Redhawks firing design, I love the Redhawk revolvers and I own several of them, including one standard Redhawk that was converted to 500 Linebaugh by Dave Clements, which also required modifications to the firing mechanism to be 100% reliable in double action mode.
wyobohunter
New member
I was unaware of that problem. My 454 has never failed to go bang but I've only put about 3-4 dozen 454 through it and a couple hundred or so 45 Colt. I have sent a customer service information request to Ruger just to get their side of the story.
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I took a look at the Bowen Classic Arms website and they sell heavy replacement springs and a longer firing pin. Of course they will do a whole tune job also if you want to spent the $. I think I will keep the factory spring at this time but buy the longer firing pin and talk to my gun smith about shaving some off the hammer. Will need to consider the head space with a longer FP. Lots on this subject if you search the web.
wyobohunter
New member
Had a FTF with Buffalo Bore ammo. This is what they sent me when I contacted them. Looks like there may be a design flaw in the gun.
FAILURES TO FIRE (FTF) OR “MIS-FIRES”
All too often, when pulling the trigger, the firing pin strikes and a deafening click emerges from your firearm...
...Let’s look at some current and very commonly flawed firing systems.
1. Ruger Redhawk:
This is probably the most prevalently flawed firing system and generator of FTF’s currently on the market. All iterations of the Redhawk or Super Redhawk have the same hammer to frame to transfer bar problem. Anytime a transfer bar is being utilized, all other aspects of the firing mechanism must work very well to overcome the difficulties imposed by the transfer bar. The Redhawk is plagued with hammer to frame to transfer bar tolerance problems. While most Red hawks will fire most brands of primers most of the time, many Redhawks will FTF with at...
I contacted Ruger about this...
My question -
According to Buffalo Bore ammunition the Redhawk and Super Redhawk have firing mechanism problems...
..."As if all the above tolerance problems with the Redhawks firing mechanism isn't enough, Redhawks chambered in 454 Casull suffer from yet one more malady. 454 Casull ammo is made utilizing a small rifle primer. Yet Ruger makes the 454 versions of their Redhawk with the same diameter firing pin as the 44mag."..
Should I be concerned that my 454 SRH AK might not go bang when I really need it
Response from Ruger:
"Buffalo Bore is a foreign ammo, please be advised that we do not recommend the use of imported ammunition, as it may be corrosive to your rifle. The foreign surplus ammunition may also cause the gun to misfire or mis-feed and in extreme cases can cause the firing pin to break. Thank you for your email."
What the? They did not even attempt to answer my question. I didn't go into the hammer to frame tolerance question in depth because I thought maybe it was common enough knowledge that they would see where I was going. Should I expect them to read for general content? They just bad mouthed Buffalo Bore. Even if what they say about Buffalo Bore is true it seems irrelevant to the question.
One of four things:
1-Buffalo Bore ammunition had a bad primer (or more?... Poster didn't say how many FTF) and excused it with a very elaborate but untrue explanation shifting blame to Ruger.
2-Ruger has some tolerance issues and doesn't realize it yet.
It happens that a bunch of folks use Buffalo bore and expect a 100% bang for their buck so are more apt to complain.
3-Ruger has tolerance issues and finds it easier to pick on Buffalo Bore than to correct the problem.
4- Ruger has tolerance issues or Buffalo bore had bad primer/s and I didn't provide enough detail when I contacted Ruger.
I've always heard Ruger customer service is top notch. I've only owned four Ruger products and have never dealt with their customer service as my products have been flawless.
Thoughts?
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I love my Alaskan.
It's a .480. Had it for a couple of years now.
IMO.... that's the one to get. As long as you reload, you can do just about anything with that cartridge.
I'm thrilled that Ruger brought the .480 back into production. For the Alaskan and regular SRH. I may have to buy a 9.5" SRH for my deer stand. Now if they would just make a five shot single action in .480 Ruger.... I would be happy!
Gregg
It's a .480. Had it for a couple of years now.
IMO.... that's the one to get. As long as you reload, you can do just about anything with that cartridge.
I'm thrilled that Ruger brought the .480 back into production. For the Alaskan and regular SRH. I may have to buy a 9.5" SRH for my deer stand. Now if they would just make a five shot single action in .480 Ruger.... I would be happy!
Gregg
Foreign?? I thought BB was made in ID.....wich is what it says on box? I did not intend to make this a big deal, but found a reoccurring theme across the internet and the various fixes . Thought I would pass on this information. I know for me one FTF is too many when dealing with dangerous game.
Also, attached is an interesting report on factory .454 ammo and its ranked likleyhood to jump crimp and jam your FA. Raises an interesting question. If the professional ammo mfgrs cant completely keep the bullet from jumping crimp, really how do our own handloads stand? Maybe I should make this a new thread?
http://www.scopedin.com/articles/equipment-tests/454-casull-cartridge-crimp-creep/
Also, attached is an interesting report on factory .454 ammo and its ranked likleyhood to jump crimp and jam your FA. Raises an interesting question. If the professional ammo mfgrs cant completely keep the bullet from jumping crimp, really how do our own handloads stand? Maybe I should make this a new thread?
http://www.scopedin.com/articles/equipment-tests/454-casull-cartridge-crimp-creep/
wyobohunter
New member
I did this same test with my Alaskan. Not with several manufacturers ammunition but with my hand loads. I found that there was barely any measurable creep if I stuck to "the rule"... If one round in a cylinder is fired I fire them all.
Not sure if you heard about this story, a Soldatna AK man got very lucky with a CNS hit on a charging 1/2 starved old brownie. After the fatal shot his cylinder locked up. He had cartridges loaded that were in the gun for multiple firings.
Read the story here.
http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml
Not sure if you heard about this story, a Soldatna AK man got very lucky with a CNS hit on a charging 1/2 starved old brownie. After the fatal shot his cylinder locked up. He had cartridges loaded that were in the gun for multiple firings.
Read the story here.
http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml
I have seen the bear post before. I recall him saying that his 5th bullet jumped crimp and jammed the gun. As mostly a semi-auto guy,I never heard of the "rule" but I think it is an excellent point which I am going to follow. I guess it is similar to the semi-auto rule of never re-chambering the same round twice on a carry gun.
wyobohunter
New member
Yeah... I suppose it isn't so much "the" rule as it is my rule. I adhere to the same semi auto rule as you though. For different but equal reasons.
When I was looking for my .454 Alaskan, I contacted Ruger and they basically told me they weren't making it anymore. I think they make them in limited runs when suppliers request them?
They are out there preowned but you have to keep your eyes peeled. I have almost no use for mine other than fun on the farm, but if I ever go fishing in brown bear territory I'll take it along.
They are out there preowned but you have to keep your eyes peeled. I have almost no use for mine other than fun on the farm, but if I ever go fishing in brown bear territory I'll take it along.
Rifleman1776
New member
I don't believe that BB representative has many years of knowledge. He has many years of the same misconception. I have fired my Redhawk .44 mag. tens of thousands of time with a variety of ammunition. Most I loaded myself using several brands of primers. I do not recall ever a failure to fire. The Ruger tolerances are partly an important safety feature. Screwing with them could create a hazardous situation. Unreliable foriegn ammunition is never reccomended. The reponse as typical of what many companies do. e.g. computer problems: software company blames the computer company; computer company blames the software company.
Use reliable, preferably American made or home loaded, ammunition, shoot and enjoy.
Use reliable, preferably American made or home loaded, ammunition, shoot and enjoy.