rubber bullets
- Thread starter clochner
- Start date
When the Red Sox won the World Series (after one of the playoff games) police used rubber bullets to disperse a rowdy crowd. One killed a college girl who was caught up in the fray.
They are safER, but not safe. A firearm has no place being used in a "maybe" situation. If you get the unexpected yet obvious chance not to have to actually shoot to stop the threat, then by all means take it.
Need to go back to basics here. A bullet is deadly, period. We are not the bad guys, we are protecting ourselves from them, period. Put the two together and we are protecting our lives from those who would take our lives by using a force that is capable of taking their lives. We shoot to stop the threat. Adding in factors that imbalance the equation is asking for disaster.
They are safER, but not safe. A firearm has no place being used in a "maybe" situation. If you get the unexpected yet obvious chance not to have to actually shoot to stop the threat, then by all means take it.
Need to go back to basics here. A bullet is deadly, period. We are not the bad guys, we are protecting ourselves from them, period. Put the two together and we are protecting our lives from those who would take our lives by using a force that is capable of taking their lives. We shoot to stop the threat. Adding in factors that imbalance the equation is asking for disaster.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I dont understand. You can get a CCW in MD, I live here. Not in Baltimore, mind you, but still. You can also buy a handgun for home use purposes. What is there to fear?
Guy attacks you/comes at you in your home, he gets a 230 grain .45 ACP round through the chest, chest, collarbone, cheekbone. Whats to fear?
CrazyIvan007
New member
He gets the drop on you while you are asleep?
I've gotten to be bad. After the night where someone tried to break into the neighboring apartment with a claw hammer trying to get to the tenants inside (luckily the doors are steel), I started to lock myself in my bedroom at night. It would at least add a few seconds to someone's attack if they were to break in and try to get me while I was asleep, hopefully waking me up and able to reach over for my .45 attached to the hidden side of my nightstand.
I sleep goofy. Sometimes the slightest noise like the sound of crickets will wake me up. Other times, there could be a cement truck being hit by a runaway train and I would sleep through it.
I have the same sleeping habits. I didnt really consider getting the drop on you like that, my mistake.
But as to the OP, I was wondering - what is there to fear from the justice system in Maryland? If you have a legal firearm, and you are getting bushwhacked (in any scenario), and you fire on the guy, why would you want anything less than lethal in your firearm?
If the law considers rubber bullets lethal when fired from a (pistol for instance) firearm, then you might as well get the extra security of the real deal. Not that less-than is totally ineffective, but its the SECURITY for that Critical Situation that you want, right?
Story time.
Went to a carnival. I had a blank firing 8mm pistol which looked exactly like an M1911. Great, I thought. I can scare someone who tries to jump me.
My friends and I were hanging around the parking lot, having beers and generally just shooting the sheet after walking around for a bit. A car and a van pulls into the lot. The car backs into my friend's drivers side door (it was open at the time.) I lean to the car, and the door opens. "You know you just hit that guy's <explicit> door?" Although I cursed, I didnt really say it in a nasty way, its just how we uncivilized people talk
Dude proceeds to "Gangsta mob" me by getting in my face and giving me the "What the <blah> you say, punk?" routine. No big deal. Im literally not worried, since I have my brother, his two friends, and two of my friends with me. Six on two, right? Heh...
Anyways, his friend joins in the smack talking, and I turn my head, allowing the kid to give me a quick right in the lip. Im glad it didnt hit my jaw, and all it really did in retrospect was a flesh wound. Regardless, I IMMEDIATELY thought to myself "Do NOT pull that fake-assed pistol. It will not do anything, and theres nothing to defend against."
Minutes later, the situation turns interesting after more of me saying "Back off, blah blah blah." One of the kids gets out a red bandanna with something wrapped inside from the car, body posturing afterwards. I have no idea whats in it. Im thinking "Its a blade. It has to be. No one would be stupid enough to draw down at a tiny carnival around here."
Now at this point, my friends (and brother, who has 150 pounds on me, and can lift two Kruniac's ) are backing away, not wanting to get involved. I get hit again by the "bandanna" man's buddy, which once again didnt do enough damage to make me "get the point".
I reach into my pocket, and pull a small (but SHARP - my GOD, it was SHARP) folding knife from it. A friend gave it to me a few months earlier because I thought it was "cool". It weighed about 0 ounces and the blade was as thin as a hair, but it was razorsharp. It also could be flicked out and released with the thumb easily.
After some defensive posturing from me, and some smacktalking (but no more advances) from the two kids, they stepped back into their car and took off.
Why did they take on six people at once with such flair and confidence? There were five people including one grown man in the van that pulled in at the same time they did, and two of them had baseball bats. Anyway, time for the lesson I learned....
If I would have pulled that pistol - they could very well have used theirs (if they had one - i never found out if they had a blade, gun, or nothing). I would have lost - I shoot blanks, they shoot nine milly.
If I would have pulled out that pistol - the van-folk could have jumped in, endangering my friends, brother, and myself. I wouldnt have been able to defend against them with a blank firing pistol in a meaningful way.
Bottom line? Dont bother with rubber bullets or fakes. My situation didnt call for lethal defensive force, and I didnt even bother going through the bravado of pulling a peice. If you get into a situation which doesnt call for lethal force, dont even bother to pull a peice. If you get into a situation that does call for it, dont even bother bringing non-lethals.
And maybe, just maybe, always carry some kind of blade.
My two cents
(And yes, the two kids were black, but hey, it could have easily been two white guys.)
But as to the OP, I was wondering - what is there to fear from the justice system in Maryland? If you have a legal firearm, and you are getting bushwhacked (in any scenario), and you fire on the guy, why would you want anything less than lethal in your firearm?
If the law considers rubber bullets lethal when fired from a (pistol for instance) firearm, then you might as well get the extra security of the real deal. Not that less-than is totally ineffective, but its the SECURITY for that Critical Situation that you want, right?
Story time.
Went to a carnival. I had a blank firing 8mm pistol which looked exactly like an M1911. Great, I thought. I can scare someone who tries to jump me.
My friends and I were hanging around the parking lot, having beers and generally just shooting the sheet after walking around for a bit. A car and a van pulls into the lot. The car backs into my friend's drivers side door (it was open at the time.) I lean to the car, and the door opens. "You know you just hit that guy's <explicit> door?" Although I cursed, I didnt really say it in a nasty way, its just how we uncivilized people talk
Dude proceeds to "Gangsta mob" me by getting in my face and giving me the "What the <blah> you say, punk?" routine. No big deal. Im literally not worried, since I have my brother, his two friends, and two of my friends with me. Six on two, right? Heh...
Anyways, his friend joins in the smack talking, and I turn my head, allowing the kid to give me a quick right in the lip. Im glad it didnt hit my jaw, and all it really did in retrospect was a flesh wound. Regardless, I IMMEDIATELY thought to myself "Do NOT pull that fake-assed pistol. It will not do anything, and theres nothing to defend against."
Minutes later, the situation turns interesting after more of me saying "Back off, blah blah blah." One of the kids gets out a red bandanna with something wrapped inside from the car, body posturing afterwards. I have no idea whats in it. Im thinking "Its a blade. It has to be. No one would be stupid enough to draw down at a tiny carnival around here."
Now at this point, my friends (and brother, who has 150 pounds on me, and can lift two Kruniac's
) are backing away, not wanting to get involved. I get hit again by the "bandanna" man's buddy, which once again didnt do enough damage to make me "get the point".I reach into my pocket, and pull a small (but SHARP - my GOD, it was SHARP) folding knife from it. A friend gave it to me a few months earlier because I thought it was "cool". It weighed about 0 ounces and the blade was as thin as a hair, but it was razorsharp. It also could be flicked out and released with the thumb easily.
After some defensive posturing from me, and some smacktalking (but no more advances) from the two kids, they stepped back into their car and took off.
Why did they take on six people at once with such flair and confidence? There were five people including one grown man in the van that pulled in at the same time they did, and two of them had baseball bats. Anyway, time for the lesson I learned....
If I would have pulled that pistol - they could very well have used theirs (if they had one - i never found out if they had a blade, gun, or nothing). I would have lost - I shoot blanks, they shoot nine milly.
If I would have pulled out that pistol - the van-folk could have jumped in, endangering my friends, brother, and myself. I wouldnt have been able to defend against them with a blank firing pistol in a meaningful way.
Bottom line? Dont bother with rubber bullets or fakes. My situation didnt call for lethal defensive force, and I didnt even bother going through the bravado of pulling a peice. If you get into a situation which doesnt call for lethal force, dont even bother to pull a peice. If you get into a situation that does call for it, dont even bother bringing non-lethals.
And maybe, just maybe, always carry some kind of blade.
My two cents
(And yes, the two kids were black, but hey, it could have easily been two white guys.)
CrazyIvan007
New member
True that.
Stupidity, ignorance and arrogance are not racist.
Good story. I'm glad no one was hurt, and seems you handled yourself well. I would suggest that if you did engage the dudes (armed or not), that engaging the one with the suspected weapon would be my first choice...or at least posturing myself in such a way to put one of his thug buddies between myself and him.
Well I didnt really do too much maneuvering. In the few minutes it happened, my brother's friend had gotten socked once, and so did one of my buddies. The opposing kids were basically trying to piss on their turf, so to speak, and back off my backup
It worked, unfortunately. The two 250+ pounders with me backed off, and my skinny buddies didnt even say anything about the entire event. So while I would have loved to just run or maneuver a BG in between of me and Bandanna man, I had to stay somewhat between the enemy and my friends. If I was the only one with a weapon of any kind (unless you count a few empty beer cans), then I suppose looking back I took it as a responsibility to hold ground? I cant really describe it, and maybe we just all got lucky, but still.
As for which one to go for, his friend was just backup, you could tell by how he acted. He would say "Watch this one bro, watch out for this one!" and point to one of my "teammates". Mostly mouth, and that arrogance was fueled by their silent backup in the van.
Interestingly enough, the van-guys didnt do anything. They talked smack about how if "you ever pull a knife around my boys again, you're going to have a problem", and later I found out they regularly ran with the two for backup in scuffles. Kind of like damage control - make sure they dont get jumped by ALL six at once.
But yeah, the more I look back on that event (its still a conversation peice for me and my friends since I can rib them about how they stood around looking like lost puppies), the more I realize that if it came down to it I would have probably just went after the "armed" one with the blade low, and just thrust into the abdomen and try to mess some things up in there.
Interestingly enough, I know little to nothing about knife fighting, and while I can talk a good game about removing someone's skull from their body via JHP, I find the prospect of jamming a knife in someone's gut to be a little personal.
At the end of the day, like you said, I'm just glad NO ONE got hurt. It would have been terrible for me and mine, and tragic for the kids who strutted - ego isnt worth a life.
It worked, unfortunately. The two 250+ pounders with me backed off, and my skinny buddies didnt even say anything about the entire event. So while I would have loved to just run or maneuver a BG in between of me and Bandanna man, I had to stay somewhat between the enemy and my friends. If I was the only one with a weapon of any kind (unless you count a few empty beer cans), then I suppose looking back I took it as a responsibility to hold ground? I cant really describe it, and maybe we just all got lucky, but still.
As for which one to go for, his friend was just backup, you could tell by how he acted. He would say "Watch this one bro, watch out for this one!" and point to one of my "teammates". Mostly mouth, and that arrogance was fueled by their silent backup in the van.
Interestingly enough, the van-guys didnt do anything. They talked smack about how if "you ever pull a knife around my boys again, you're going to have a problem", and later I found out they regularly ran with the two for backup in scuffles. Kind of like damage control - make sure they dont get jumped by ALL six at once.
But yeah, the more I look back on that event (its still a conversation peice for me and my friends since I can rib them about how they stood around looking like lost puppies), the more I realize that if it came down to it I would have probably just went after the "armed" one with the blade low, and just thrust into the abdomen and try to mess some things up in there.
Interestingly enough, I know little to nothing about knife fighting, and while I can talk a good game about removing someone's skull from their body via JHP, I find the prospect of jamming a knife in someone's gut to be a little personal.
At the end of the day, like you said, I'm just glad NO ONE got hurt. It would have been terrible for me and mine, and tragic for the kids who strutted - ego isnt worth a life.