rossi ranch hand .44 mag.

9ballbilly

New member
Another member mentioned this gun in a thread where I was looking for ideas on a lever-action carbine to use for self-defense (not Hunting) while backpacking/camping. I was thinking along the lines of Win. 16" trapper
.30-.30 (good luck finding one). Since I'd never heard of the ranch hand I took a look at one. At a glance it seems like it may be ideal for my purpose. It would be lightweight, compact, and easy to pack in, and the .44 magnum is powerful enough to handle anything I might run into. I do have two questions I'd like some help with.

1. Although it was not designed to, can it be shoulder fired?

2. How much cost/difficulty would be involved in swapping the oversize
lever loop for a standard size one?

As well as the answers to my questions I'd like to hear what you think from anyone familiar with the ranch hand
 
I think it was American Rifleman did a review of this and found the .44 to be unmanageable because of recoil. The reviewer recommended the .357 mag version instead. Can't easily be shoulder-fired either. I looked at these for the same reason you did, if I got one it would be the .357, but it doesn't sound like a real practical defense gun.
 
9ballbilly: the reason I suggested it is because I own one in .44:D. Recoil from .44 special loads are quite manageable. My GF fires it quite well. She is a tiny woman, 5' nothing, 115 lbs. The magnum loads are a bit stiffer. Not real sure about the ease of changing the loop lever though.. It isn't able to fire from the shoulder very easily. Not satisfied with the holsters out there for it, I am currently making a back scabbard for it. I also use a one point sling attached to the ring. Pushing out with the sling slung(:D) steadies it nicely. Is it practical for concealed carry or open carry? No. But for a trail/ camp gun, it is IMO, just fine. The AR article did not say the recoil was unmanageable, the author said it was "uncomfortable" but probably due to the fact it is not the easiest to shoot, too short to be fired from the shoulder and the stock too straight to shoot like a traditional handgun. Fact is, the Rossi Ranch Hand costs under $450 ,but the rounds are a bit pricey. Other than that, fantastic!
 
Thanks Icedog. I'm not thinking of a holster for it, but some type of scabbard to attach it to a backpack ( rather than inside) for ease of access. Also happy to hear that recoil of the .44mag is not terrible since I'm a fan of it. I personally feel the .357 is a fine caliber, but a bit light for what I have in mind. In the past I've owned two .44 revolvers and with a little practice didn't have any recoil problems. Another benefit of the .44mag for me is that I have considerable, though dated, experience reloading for it (might just be the excuse I need to start again ;)). Do you happen to know if Hornady still makes the 300gr. XTP bullet in .44? Other positive factors are that they are reasonably priced, just plain cool looking, and I expect it would be a bit better ballistically from the 12" bbl. than from a revolver. Feel free to correct me if you think any of this is incorrect. Thanks very much for the recommendation and info.
 
A Puma 92 scabbard sounds like what you may be looking for. I have no experience with it though. Just word of mouth. XTP 300 grain .44 are still in production to my knowledge. I use Winchester Cowboy Action .44 specials to practice with, and while in the woods I use the Reg Winchester Mag. I believe 240 gr. This is my first firearm chambered for .44 so this is quite sufficient for me. If you do go with this, enjoy! I know I do:D
 
someone brought to my attention that the Ranch Hand is considered a SBR in New york state and as such is not legal. Does anyone know if this is true? My understanding is that it meets the ATF requirements for a handgun. It would be very disappointing to find out it's not legal here.
 
From what I understand, the ATF has deemed it a pistol. It is sold as a pistol here in CT. The box it is packed in even says so.:cool:
 
Also, I may be mistaken, but doesn't an SBR have to have a stock designed to be shoulder fired? Best ask a dealer or a gun lawyer. Reading a post on another forum saying it's not against the law, just an interpretation. Another saying it is against the law because it's over 50ozs. Damned stupid if it's true!:mad:
 
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After not being able to find the answer online during several differently worded searches ( I'm sure the answer was there somewhere, I just couldn't find it) I did call a local dealer. He told me that it is considered a hangun here and can be legally owned (Hooray!!). Many of our New York state gun laws seem to range from non-sensible to outright absurd IMO so this was very good news. If I didn't already have a gun on lay-a-way I would be on my way to order a Ranch hand today.

I started out shooting and hunting at a very young age and participated in it on a nearly daily basis for about fifteen years. After that, during the years I was married, eventually divorced, and then a single parent the only firearm I kept was the S&W .40cal autoloader that I carried while a LEO and actually fired about one magazine every two or three years. This situation lasted about a decade. Finally moving back to a rural area I found I needed some sort of varmint/pest control firearm. I ended up with a Savage bolt-action .22magnum topped with an inexpensive Gander mtn. 3x9 scope. It performed beautifully and rekindled my interest. Over the next few years, as my son got older, The Savage was followed up by a Henry .22lr carbine, a Rem. 870 12ga.,a Ruger speed-six .38, and most recently a Ruger MKIII .22lr. The Rock Island 1911A1 match .45acp that's on lay-a-way now is next, followed quickly by the .44mag Ranch hand. This is all a long winded way of saying that my knowlege was far out of date before joining this forum. For instance In an early post I mentioned that I always carried the revolver rather than the .40cal while fishing because I could carry a couple shotshells for snakes. One of the members was kind enough to tell me that .40cal shotshells are now available, something that wouldn't have even crossed my mind. In closing I want to give a heartfelt thank you to all the members who took the time to help me with advice and suggestions as well as answer what probably seemed to be many rediculous questions. Sincerely, Bill
 
It's a sorry choice for defense.
Slow to use, recoil is presented totally differently than a conventional handgun, you can't fire it from the shoulder with any degree of practicality.
The .44 Mag will not be either pleasant or efficient to shoot.

This is purely a case of trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. It looks cool, people are trying to force it into a role it fits very poorly in.

Swapping the lever may cost you anywhere from $50-$100.
Denis
 
Shooting .44 Specials should settle any recoil concerns, as mentioned, and may just gain you an extra round. It does at least in the carbine length guns. Another perhaps more practical alternative--a Rossi 92 trapper (16"), don't know in the RH if it falls just shy or not. Over the years they have been variously imported by Interarms (which started the "Puma" moniker so widely used), Legacy (LSI, which inherited the word "Puma"), EMF, Navy Arms and now just plain "Rossi" (owned and operated now by Taurus/Braztech).
 
"This gentleman" refined my 16-inch 92 in .45 Colt, and rebuilt my .45 Colt Ranch Hand into a more TV-traditional form. You can see my RH & my photo on his website.

Of the two, I'd hands down choose the carbine for any type of serious use, most definitely for self-defense. :)
Denis
 
I think it will serve your purpose just fine 9ballbilly:cool:. As I stated, I own the Ranch hand and use it for exactly what you plan on. As with ANY firearm, it takes practice to refine your accuracy and speed presenting said weapon. I also have a 94 Trapper in 30-30 to take deer on hunting trips. Not for hiking or just trail walking. My RRH is plenty good enough as my just in case gun.
 
The Mare's Leg can't be operated as quickly and efficiently as a good quality revolver.
If you want to use a .44 Mag to save your tail, either a Smith or a Ruger will come on target quicker, handle recoil better, provide much faster followup shots, reload much faster, can be fired more efficiently & faster one-handed, and will tote much more compactly.

But- If you're determined to use a square peg.... :)
Denis
 
I will have to disagree that a gun the size of a Ranch hand is much worse than a hand gun as self defense. And slow?
Lever actions are known for their speed in second round times. As far as accuracy at self defense ranges, just what use are sights? If you can’t hit a target in a kill zone inside of 10 feet by just pointing then you’re taking too long to sight in the gun or the gun doesn’t fit your hand.
I have Ruger single actions and S&W in 44 magnums and I also have Marlin 98 and several Ruger in 44 magnums the fact of their increased weight alone will make them easier to shoot due to recoil. My Ruger 44/77 with 320 Gr loads that dropped a deer like it was hit with a 50BMG, the recoil was very easy to manage and in no way uncomfortable. The same goes with the Marlin. As far as the handguns, I won’t even shoot them with that same load.
Speed is dependent on the shooter more than the gun. If you’re not willing to practice what you carry how you carry than it’s a wasted conversation on which is better for speed.
Will the ranch hand do everything a handgun or rifle will do? No, but some things it will do better than a revolver. The other thing is that if you empty it, it will make a much better club than a revolver and you can reload it with the gun still able to fire.
My only problem with the gun is that although I hear that the gun will shoot 44 specials. My experience with 44 mag lever actions, they are not reliable with specials. My Marlin has locked up several times on specials.
Several weeks ago I went to a local gun store to look at a ranch hand. I like the gun, it feels well made although the wood was too plain. When I asked if it would handle specials they said yes. I told them that I would put the money down on the gun (cash) and buy a box of specials (+30$) from them and it if would fire 10 without a hitch in their indoor range the sale was complete. I even said that they could be the ones shooting the gun.
They declined.
Buy the gun, I think it’s a good choice but you will need to practice with it a lot to be able to use it for your intended purpose.

1.Although it was not designed to, can it be shoulder fired?
From handling one, no, it would put the sights and action to close to the face. The gun is made for hip shooting at short ranges. Much like a pistol griped shotgun

2. How much cost/difficulty would be involved in swapping the oversize
lever loop for a standard size one?
Since the action is the same that should be no issue but I feel the over sized loop has its advantages. The smaller loop holds the hand gripping it in one position and makes it difficult with gloves. The larger loop won’t have the same issue.
I wonder how long before some nit wit shoots themselves doing the “John Wayne” reload by spinning the gun in a circle.
I’m sure that works well with blanks.
 
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Oz,
My experiences with standard leverguns & two Mare's Legs don't agree with your statements. You're trying to transfer full-stocked handling characteristics into the un-stocked ML, and they don't transfer.

Speed: A STOCKED levergun with a three-point mount (front hand, rear hand, AND SHOULDER) can be quite fast. With a stock, the gun stays in a more consistent firing position simply because of its rear point of contact, which you don't have with the stockless ML.

With a stocked levergun, you can hold the rifle in a steadier mount with your forward hand pulling back enough to keep the stock resting against the shoulder, and the sights close to the actual line-of-sight firing/sighting position, as the rear hand works the lever. With a front point of contact and a rear point of contact, the stocked rifle just doesn't need to wander as much as the stockless ML does while the lever's being cycled. The sight picture can be quickly re-acquired.

The stockless ML can NOT be cycled as steadily as the stocked gun can, it'll wander more as the lever's cycled, and it can't regain a sight picture as quickly, especially in the hotter calibers.

That's compared to a stocked conventional rifle.
Compared to a good DA revolver, there simply is no comparison. You can't physically operate the action, recover sight picture, and fire subsequent shots as fast as you can with a DA revolver held in a strong two-handed hold in aimed fire.
Even a good SA revolver with much practice at all can easily fire, cycle (manually cock the hammer), re-acquire a sight picture, and fire a second aimed shot faster than a same-calibered .44 Mag ML.

Try firing six rapid aimed .44 Mag shots at a bear as it's running toward you with an ML, try the same with a Ruger or S&W DA .44 Mag. There will be no contest, in such a situation you probably won't get off more than a couple shots with the ML, if that, whereas you can easily empty your DA revolver.

More than one threat or target, requiring you to acquire a sight picture and fire quickly at both? The revolver that does not require you to lose your firing grip with either hand WILL maneuver more quickly and more efficiently than having to remove your strong hand from the firing position, cycle the lever, regain your stronghand hold, get the gun back in line, re-acquire your sight picture, and fire with the ML.

I reject your implication that a point & shoot is all that's required, as well as that 10 feet will be the only distance you may be threatened at.

Speed can come from many factors, not the least of which is the reduction of extraneous movement from the initial draw through the first shot and all shots that follow.

Speed is not more dependent on the shooter than the gun. A shooter's skill is important, but no matter how good Mario Andretti may be with an all-out racecar, he can not win the same race with a Prius.
The platform DOES make a major difference.
No matter how fast you may get the ML to run, it physically CANNOT fire six rounds as fast as a good DA revolver, in the same caliber, aimed or otherwise.

A DA .44 Mag revolver can also be operated faster one-handed if the other hand's injured than the ML can. Same with an SA revolver.

Weight: Weight alone does not make one gun's recoil easier to handle than a totally different type of gun in the same caliber.
I have a video here somewhere of me firing a Smith .460 Mag snub revolver with full-bore loads, three times, one-handed.
I would never fire a .44 Mag ML one-handed. It's not a matter of weight (the ML would be heavier), it's a matter of the gun's grip configuration, and how you hold it in your hand.

The Smith used a conventional angled revolver grip, which allows the shooter to hold & fire it with the wrist in an almost normal (as in more natural)extended position relative to the rest of the arm. That locates the biggest part of the gun's mass above the hand, not directly in front of it, so the hand can accept the recoil more comfortably and hang on better as the revolver's recoil is split between trying to move straight back and pivoting the muzzle upward when it can't.

On the ML, you have a very slightly angled straight stock nub wrist, which is harder to hang onto under recoil, requires the shooter to bend the wrist down at a much more acute angle, positions the gun more directly in front of the hand, and directs more of its recoil straight back.
Nowhere near as easy to hang onto as a revolver, and not as easy on the wrist. Not to mention the possibility of banging the front of the lever against the second finger on the hand.

The typical stock angle on a straight-wristed rifle is nowhere near as efficient in handling recoil in a handgun version as a curved grip with a greater angle. That was noticed early on & you can see it in the flintlock pistols of the 1600 & 1700s.

All of which still leaves you with the slower reloading of the ML if needed, and the fact that a revolver is much less likely to toss in a feeding jam in the middle of a string of fire.
Denis
 
I have to say the revolver may be faster but I still disagree that the revolver is a better choice. I don't know if Ozzieman was saying the RH is faster than a revolver or not but I took it to mean that with practice, it ain't a musket either. As for one handed operation in case my other arm is injured, I probably wouldn't go into the woods with an injury. If the injury occurred defending myself against a bear, my arm would probably be the least of my problems at that point. We aren't talking Grizzly bears, so if I leave them alone,99% of the time ,they will leave me alone. If by chance, it does happen to be that 1%, the RH would do just fine. We are talking a camp/hiking gun. If the boardgame I am playing on has square holes, my square peg is perfect!
 
I'll have to agree with Denis on this one, revolver more operationally effective and practical in every regard.(save for the "club" comment,will give it that). I would love to have a RH, or with more budget better yet the Chiappa (LSA/Legacy) variant, for the novelty though!
 
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