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I just found out that I won't be considered a resident of PA, and therefore won't be able to get a firearms permit. Apparently living on campus doesn't indicate an intention to remain in PA. So I'm looking into establishing residence ASAP. I'm going to get my PA driver's license, ask my family if they can say that I live with them when I'm not in college(which I probably will so it won't be a lie), and make a general effort to obtain residency.

I want to get a pistol soon as well so that I'm proficient with it by the time I'm old enough for ccw.

1.) Is .45 not a good starter caliber, should I start with 9mm?

2.) Does anyone object to a Glock 21/19 as a starter pistol?
 
"just because someone says they may be intoxicated"

Easy to say when you don't have to face them.

Ask any cop what kind of a call bring the hackles to his neck and they'll say it's "domestic violence."

That's a benevolent phrase for "drunk with a gun."

You don't know what caused it. You don't know if they will listen. You don't know if other crimes are in the act of being committed. You don't know if hostages are being held.

Now consider the call a policeman encounters where there are twenty drunken, partying students and a loaded gun.

The original poster states up front that he will be drunk and he wants a firearm.

So I ask you, you're going to volunteer to go get the gun from him when he's all liquored up, aren't you?
 
I must say that, when I read jrock18’s original post a couple days ago, I was struck forcefully (and not at all reassured) by his statement regarding his expectation of being periodically “intoxicated”, as he put it. At the time I didn’t think it would be worthwhile to ask him about it because I anticipated my observations being interpreted combatively, or seen as an attempt to provoke a flaming match. But given jrock18’s sustained interest in hearing others’ opinions and the fact that the alcohol issue is the topic of the last few posts, I think I’ll go ahead.

Jrock18,

You have admitted that you intend to intoxicate yourself, which is defined by Oxford as “cause to lose control of…faculties or behavior”. You have indicated that this state may be achieved in the presence of a firearm, a potentially lethal instrument. However, these two facts evidently do not cause you concern--the reason being that you claim to be in control of the degree to which your faculties will be impaired.

If you are “intoxicated” to any degree, it is undeniable that part of your judgment has gone haywire, or is not functioning at all. This being the case, how can you ensure that the first part to go south is not the part that controls your resolve to limit your drinking? Once you are not “you” anymore, how can you say for sure what is going to happen? How do you see through the haze and reconnect with the rational person who ordained exactly how much is too much? It is not enough to not be drunk to the point of “retardation”; for people who insist on being in complete control of their actions at all times (read "responsible people"), nothing less than full operating condition will suffice.

It is incomprehensible to me how any responsible gun owner could use any substance that impairs his judgment in the presence of his gun(s), no matter how slightly. Though I find it exasperating to hear people talk of the HUGE responsibility of handling and carrying firearms (you’d think they go around with drawn, gray faces from the strain—all it takes is common sense, the exercise of which shouldn’t feel like the weight of the world on your shoulders), one does have a simple, easy choice to make in situations such as yours: accountability or unaccountability. Guns and alcohol don’t mix, in however slight amounts of either.
 
Maybe I am taking these comments the wrong way, but I have clearly stated that I would never handle a gun with even 1 beer in me. I'm not an idiot, and I wouldn't allow anyone else to handle a gun with alcohol in them.

I really think that many here are assuming an animal house environment. I will be intoxicated meaning drunk. Not strung out on crack and desperate for a fix. I'm sure many of you drink in the same house where your guns are stored and never think twice. I don't see what everyone's issue is. I have been drunk, I have been around guns, and I have been drunk around guns in the past; and never once did I consider handling a firearm after drinking.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can say whatever they'd like, but despite my age I'm not a fool. I don't have a temper and when I drink I have a couple beers or shots or w/e and then relax with friends. Personally I am a bit surprised that everyone assumes that the minute a college kid has a couple drinks in him he'll be incredibly irresponsible.

When I get the gun it will probably be a glock 21 and I'll keep it in a safe like this:

http://gunsafestore.com/GV1000DLX.htm

or

http://gunsafestore.com/GV2000DLX.htm


So I'll be the only one who could open it, and I would never handle it with any alcohol in me. Thus any drunken mistakes that could be made, aren't.
 
"I would never handle a gun with even 1 beer in me"

There's a commercial that runs in my area of a guy totally smashed and all of the over-the-top things a guy might do in that condition.

The commercial ends with the question about driving and judgement and the problem of discerning when you cross a line, even by a little.

Your comments are made now, while you're sober. But your comments also relay the fact that you intend to imbibe more than enough.

Ever see a drunk when he thinks his best friend has slighted him? One minute he's kissing you and weeping about your friendship, and the next minute he's your blood enemy for gawking at his girl friend. And he has a gun.

If you cannot handle your liquor, you cannot handle your gun. Did I say that clear enough?
 
I'm 250 pounds I can handle my liquor just fine. When I drink I never get to the point where I'm out of control and wild. I drink 3-5 drinks and relax, I don't binge drink and black-out. I drink responsibly, and shoot responsibly as both are innocent activities which can turn deadly when negligent.


I think you need a beer.:rolleyes:




I'm done discussing this topic as I've thoroughly stated my point and where I'm coming from, you can continue posting about it if it pleases you, but I'm out.
 
So, Tourist and J-Framer, I suppose the two of you never touch alcohol, or any type of medicine like Nyquil, or Robitussin right? You have never had to take any type of pain killer like Vicodin right? All of these impair you as well. Give me a break.
 
To jrock18

First, what state are you a resident of? Not being a resident of Pennsylvania may work to your advantage.

Second, you're on the East Coast. Drinking is considered pretty normal and acceptable there. In the Midwest, if your lips touch alcohol, you're irresponsible. If you drink more than one, you're an alcoholic.
 
I'm glad jrock/joe is able to recognize the sanctimonious nonsense and dismiss it.

One poster speaks of slobbering drunks on crying jags, or of police responding to raging out of control drunks. Several imply that having one or two beers will render the OP incapable of deciding to call it a night. Some posters read "intoxicated" and immediately suggest the OP is a dypsomaniac, utterly incapable of limiting his alcohol consumption. "Intoxicated" can mean falling down drunk. But the law of the land in all 50 states also says "intoxicated" means an average adult having two beers or two glasses of wine in one hour -just see how easily one can achieve BAC of 0.08 percent. Most reasonable adults do not have their judgement impaired at that level - the arbitrary 0.08 level, forced on the states by the feds, is merely the authorities' best shot at zero tolerance in a society that emphatically rejects zero tolerance with regard to alcohol.

What world do y'all live in. Guys in college like to have a few beers. They don't all end up in de-tox.

Instead of encouraging a young man who clearly is going the extra mile to educate himself about responsible gun possession and storage in a university setting, a few Carrie Nations here want to paint him as an habitual drunkard and a disgrace to gun owners, if not a criminal.

Whatever solution jrock18 settles upon, be it a collapsible baton, a baseball bat, or that Glock 21 in a safe, he strikes me as a thoughtful, articulate and responsible young man. He has my best wishes, whatever he decides.

Bob
 
"So, Tourist...I suppose the two of you never touch alcohol"

I'm a Seventh Day Adventist.

However, as I have said, the life I live now is not the life I lived as a younger man. We are discussing the life of a college student.

I do know this. Most guys I know who are serious hunters have a policy where they drink at the end of the day. They do not drink while hunting because the firearms are loaded.

So, if a trained and veteran hunter watches his drinking, then certainly an inexperienced student needs to check his conduct. And a guy who professes he will be drunk is not mature enough for gun ownership.
 
So, Tourist, I have a few drinks from time to time. Maybe even one too many from time to time. I like to have my friends over and have a good time, especially around New Years and the local races. I have guns in my house. They live in the safe. Are you saying that if I drink even one too many and reside in the same house with a safe full of guns that I am not responsible enough for gun ownership? If you are, then you are sorely mistaken and very overbroad in your assumptions.

Just to be clear, here is what the OP said
Also, it's safe to assume that there will be times when my roommate/s and I are intoxicated.
Click to expand...
Intoxicated is not necessarily falling-down slurred-speach drunk. Also, he is not going to be "hunting" with his weapon. Yes responsible hunters drink at the end of the day, but jeez, there is no "end of the day" when it comes to keeping a weapon for protection. He is concerned with keeping the weapon out of the hands of someone who may have his/her decision making capabilities impaired. Remember, we are not talking about your life as a younger man, we are talking about someone else who has come here seeking honest advise and told us every detail of his situation. Maybe you have some deamons, don't project them onto the OP.
 
"Remember, we are not talking about your life as a younger man"

Fair enough.

Most dorms do not allow firearms. In this case, it sounds like an apartment.

And if it is a college students' apartment, we have a problem with security.

Notice I typed students' and not student's. There will be people in and out of that unit. He stated that alcohol was going to be used.

Let's say that he is a "responsible drunk." Early in the evening he locks up the gun cabinet, along with his car keys. For the individual, he might feel he has taken responsibility.

But you cannot control the traffic of a party where numerous people are drinking to access.

Look, I don't want to deny the guy his rights under The Second Amendment. And I enjoyed the heck out of being young. But just like the condition of automobiles, decisions on behavior should be made while you are sober.

Liquor and firearms don't mix. Do you handle firearms after drinking?
 
Liquor and firearms don't mix. Do you handle firearms after drinking?
Click to expand...
Correct, and No.

Security is a problem, that's why I suggested the small safe bolted to the floor by the bed and disguised. I implemented this exact same method in this exact same situation in college. It worked for me.
 
But you cannot control the traffic of a party where numerous people are drinking to access.
Click to expand...

OK, now this is bordering rediculous. The OP has made it evident that he is willing to go the extra mile to act responsibly with his ownership of a weapon and his occasional drinking. For some reason, that still isn't good enough for you though, is it? So, it's safe to say that you feel the whole world shouldn't drink at all right? I'm a hunter, a pretty serious hunter as a matter of fact. Yes, while hunting, we pay special attention to our alcohol consumption. We make sure that when the first beer opens, the guns have been put away for the day. We don't make sure to unload them all and lock them away and rule over each other with an iron fist. We're adults, and we treat each other with respect, obviously something you are incapable of doing. As previously stated, we are not talking about your life as a young man, so it is unfair to compare your life to his in any manner. Your level and his level of intoxication could be quite different. Apparently your level of intoxication is the point where people stop acting like human beings and start looking for weapons to shoot each other with. Well, I can tell you that in all my years of alcohol cosumption I have never reached for a weapon after I have been drinking. Maybe there is something you are not telling us? As for your statement that I quoted, at what point do you make people responsible for their own actions? It seems like you are one of those types of people that feel it is your responsiblity to protect us from ourselves.
 
"It seems like you are one of those types of people that feel it is your responsiblity to protect us from ourselves."

I cannot speak for everyone here, but I want as much freedom as I can get.

But this is my position. I don't know if you're familiar with a comedian by the name of Christopher Titus, but he does a bit on how mothers differ from fathers when raising children on "real life experiences." He depicts a father watching his toddler son approaching an electrical outlet with a metal object. Standing as if holding a beer, he mimicks his father by saying to an imaginary friend, "Okay, watch this..."

It's a funny bit, and my Dad used that kind of logic in teaching me about stoves and exhaust pipes.

I'm not sure that this "hands on" knowledge applies to liquor and fire arms.

How many times have you heard a friend approach his car and say, "No, I'm okay, I just had a few beers..."

The problem with most consumption is that it does not always hit you like a light switch. It progresses. You might stop for work and catch a beer to relax. After a few beers, you're mood shifts and you're happy again. Then you joke around, but might not slur your speech or fall down.

The problem here is that you're already too drunk to drive or shoot--but you don't it.

And so you place me in a situation where I might have to watch a younger person mishandle liquor and firearms, and then say to my friends, "Okay, watch this..."

Sober people have 'accidental discharges.' As you know from my posts, a police chief baked his Glock.

I also prefaced my last comment as not wanting to take away his Second Amendment rights, and I'll stand on it. However, we are careful in our own homes around children, and I'm just advising the same caution around alcohol.
 
Jaxx, that line you quoted is not rediculous at all. It is fact. When several guys live in a common house or apartment, it is nearly impossible to control the traffic pattern of visitors, especially when there is a celebration going on. Drunk people can, and do, tend to wander and if they stumble upon an unsecured weapon, then bad things happen. Our large house in college played host to uncountable celebrations, and many-a-time were there people who's alcohol consumption surpassed recommended levels:rolleyes:. My point is that at no time did I feel uneasy about the storage of my, or my roommate's firearm. Our rooms were locked, and the only keys to them were on our keyrings. On top of that, our guns were in small safe's bolted to the floor. My empty laundry basket lived on top of my safe to keep it out of view. I don't think Tourist is advocating the need to protect us from ourselves, rather he is just underscoring the idea that alcohol and guns don't mix, especially in a college setting.
 
To jrock18

If you are a resident of a state that freely issues permits, it might be easier to get a PA license than if you had to jump through all of the Phila. PD hoops. When I moved to Indiana to go to IU in Bloomington, Indiana for grad school, Philadelphia was still excluded from the shall issue provision but PA licenses were good in Philadelphia. I got an Indiana license with no problem. I then went to the Chester Co., PA Sheriff and paid the fee and got the PA license in the mail two weeks later. Recently, when it was time to renew, I mailed an app to Centre Co., PA Sheriff along with the fee and got my PA license two weeks later again. All I needed was my Indiana resident license. If you're, for example, a VA resident, a VA license is good in PA. If you're from NJ or MD or NY, forget what I just wrote and go ahead and establish PA residency.
 
VUPDblue, the point that I was trying to make was that if he has friends over who happen to drink while they are at his home, he should not be held accountable for their actions on or off of his property. No one held a gun to their head and made them drink and possibly act like a fool. So, as long as he has his weapons locked up in a secure fashion, and he alone knows the wherabouts of the key/combination, it won't matter who is in his home and/or their intoxication levels.
 
9mmHP:

Sadly I live in NJ so it would be easier for me to get the gun and license in PA.

I know I said I wouldn't comment anymore on this topic but, I appreciate the info regarding alcohol, I was unaware of that fact and it does help me understand a bit better where the OP is coming from. Come to think of it I have cousins in Iowa and the one time I mentioned drinking to them they thought I was some kind of bad ass.


---

To be honest I am scared ****less of what would happen if someone found a gun in my dorm room, so that won't be happening. Once I get an apartment I'm all for owning a gun, but until then I'm going to play it safe with a kershaw auto folder and a nice baton. Can anyone who owns a baton tell me if I should get one of the automatic ones or are they easy to open?


and I'm still waiting for a reply on the .45 vs. 9mm for a starter caliber question.:p

Thanks for all the info and help that's been given. Even you tourist for playing the devil's advocate.
 
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