Roman vs Scottish fighting styles?

The Roman weapons such as Pilum and Gladius (originally of Spanish origin) were no objects of art, but were well-suited for Roman warfare, which gradually evolved from a Greek-style phalanx into manipular tactics and then cohort tactics.

In contrast, Picts and Scots largely fought as tribal warbands, neither unified nor independent in a coordinated sense. Such warbands were no match for a phalanx in a pitched battle, let alone armies using manipular or cohort tactics. After the Romans withered the initial shock of a Pictish (Celtic or Germanic) charge, they usually isolated and overwhelmed the warbands in turn.

As with the Germans of the Teutoberg Forest, what these tribal warbands instead excelled in were ambushes on their own territories. Being small and locally mobile, they made very good bushwackers. Unfortunately, when such bushwackings occurred too often, the Romans had a habit of coming back in force, annihilating the warbands, enslaving the women and children and burning the villages - a prospect that often swayed the would-be bushwackers.

Even then, the Roman legions always dug in when on unfriendly territory at the end of a day's march. Such entrenching served as a fortress at nights and a place of refuge during a retreat. Matter of fact, it can be said correctly that the Roman legions conquered an empire with their entrenching tools, not their swords or spears. One exception where this was not done was in Teutoberg Forest when Varus thought all that digging was "unnecessary."

During the Augustan period, the Romans largely relied on barbarian client kingdoms to provide "outer perimeter security" while the Roman legions were held back for punitive expeditions over rebellious or unruly client states.

As for the Scottish boast that the Romans never conquered Scotland/Caledonia, what did Caledonia have in the way of things the Romans were interested in? A bunch of sheep and a few screaming naked warriors on poor and remote mountains were not very interesting to conquerors who were used to the wines of Italy, grains of the Nile Delta, dyes of Phoenicia, rugs of Cappadocia and other riches.

BTW, an odd historical fact about the name "Scotland": it comes from, obviously, the "land of the Scots." The word "Scot" comes from the tribe of Scotii, which originally inhabited Hibernia/Ireland during Roman times. So, in a bizzare historical twist, Picts, who were original inhabitants of Scotland were conquered by a people from Ireland called "Scots." Then later, Scots, now from Scotland (along with the English), colonized Ulster/Northern Ireland and became Ulster Irish. Odd, isn't it?

Bahadur, formerly known as Skorzeny
 
Heh. I had a bumper sticker once that said:

Caledonia For The Picts!
Scots Go Home!


I thought it was funny. Nobody else ever got it. :(

LawDog
 
LawDog:

Having been a HUGE Rosemary Sutcliffe fan in my childhood, what about the slogan:

Britain for Celts!
Anglo-Saxons go home!

Or, more narrowly,

Cymru for Celts!
Anglo-Saxons go home!
 
The Roman short sword was not standard issue until the 3rd or 2nd century B.C., when the Roman infantry adopted the Iberian weapon they called the 'Gladius Hispaniensis ' or 'Spanish sword', which is what we commonly see in movies about the period (e.g., "Gladiator"). This basic design, with various modifications, continued through to the 2nd century A.D.

The cavalry used a longer, narrower, sword that followed Celtic types. The reason for having a longer sword when mounted on a horse necessitates no explanation.

A later version of the infantry sword was the so-called Pompeii sword, in good use by the 1st century A.D., with straight parallel edges and a short stabbing point.

About 100 A.D. an even shorter sword known as a Pugio was used.

The Romans were always keen on such weaponry as was functionally superior to their own, and never hesitated to adopt other people's ideas if they knew it would give them an edge. Sort of like WWII Germany, who "borrowed" the Russian blueprint for the T-34, upon which the Panzer IV and Tiger I were modeled.
 
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The Romans were always keen on such weaponry as was functionally superior to their own, and never hesitated to adopt other people's ideas if they knew it would give them an edge. Sort of like WWII Germany, who "borrowed" the Russian blueprint for the T-34, upon which the Panzer IV and Tiger I were modeled.
Oh, you were doing so, so well until that last sentence.

Panzer IV and Tiger were both independent designs. General Heinz Guderian, the father of the Panzer Division concept, upon inspecting captured T-34's, urged the German High Command to essentially reverse-engineer them and put them into production as rapidly as possible.

That idea WAS considered, and one of the two major competing Panther designs was mostly a copy of the T-34 (that is to say, a very simple, but rugged design) while the other contender was a much more Teutonic ("over-engineered" and complicated) design. In the end, because of various politico-economic reasons, the more complicated design was adopted as the production model.
 
The strength of the Roman Legion was first and foremost an almost modern method of military organization (units, ranks, supply, pay and food etc.) and training. Second was their tactics and weapons.
 
Superior Roman military organization was a function of a higher level Roman societal-political organization. This in turn allowed for many of the manifestations of a "modern" military organization, such as discipline, training, supply and so forth.

"Barbarian" tribes with their more primitive societal organizations could not match the Roman politico-economic-military mobilization.
 
Hmm...you mean agriculute => food surplus + alphabet + numbers => logistic (and training) advantage? I don't think the "societal-political organization" is what gave them an advantage. Rather it was a result of their advantages.
 
Right Roman society revolved around the military and conquest, especially in the early years of the republic. Wealthy families were expected to provide their sons with the equipment needed to field them as heavy infantry units. As the empire grew older it began mass producing items needed for the war machine like armor. Rome also reduced the logistical burden on their armies by creating their excellent road systems which allowed quick communications and troop transportation (for the time).

This is all a function of Roman socio-political structure. Roman advantages didn't appear from nowhere, the romans created them gradually over the centuries through organization.
 
Well, it can seem something like "a chicken and an egg" problem, but it is not. I like Jared Diamond's ("Guns, Germs and Steel") term auto-catalytic in describing the relationship between the political organization and the military advantages, meaning they tend to reinforce each other in an upward spiral.

Reading Delbrueck ("Geschichte der Kriegskunst im Rahmen der politischen Geschichte"), it becomes pretty clear that the main Roman military advantages were two-fold: 1) overwhelming numerical advantage (both in men and weapons) in most cases and 2) superior discipline of the soldiers, which allowed superior tactical formations (first the phalanx, then the manipular phalanx, echelons and then cohorts).

Both were essentially products of a superior political-economic-social civilization, which I acknowledge, were continually reinforced by the resultant superior military capacity.
 
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