Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation on Wolf Management

Yes Buzzcook, there are plenty of links out there. Here's another written just last month.

http://www.clearwatertribune.com/Weekly Pages/04-01-10/April0110Eastman.htm

The author is Gene Eastman.

Gene Eastman, Graduate of the University of Idaho, School of Forestry, majoring in wildlife management; Certified Wildlife biologist, The Wildlife Society; Retired Conservation Officer, Idaho Department of Fish and Game (1970-1993); Retired Air Force Master Sergeant, USAF and Air National Guard (1955-1997); Resident of Weippe area since June, 1973; Member of the Clearwater County Search and Rescue.
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You can look it over yourself, but basically the Canadian Gray Wolf is not a native predator. It should never have been introduced. A screwup by man.

The small wolf I call the “native Idaho wolf” started showing up in 1976 after the 1080 poisoning program was halted. About the same year I saw the first set of wolf tracks on the North Fork river road. Bear hunters started seeing a pair of wolves in the late 70s in upper Kelly Creek. In the 1980s wolf sighting increased with wolves being seen near Woodland, around Pierce, Weippe and in the back country. Most sightings were singles or pairs.

A local hound hunter reported a pack of wolves (1980s) near Smith Ridge. I witnessed them howling in 1992. A grey and black wolf pair was seen by many folks around Weippe in the fields in the late 80s. I was able to video the black wolf on the Weippe Prairie hunting mice. Much of this information gathered on sightings and documented wolf tracks was shared with the Federal Fish and Wildlife and the Idaho Department of Fish and Game. The wolf video was also sent to the Federal Fish and Wildlife. The smaller “Idaho wolf” was not creating a problem with the public, wildlife or domestic stock.

After the wolf introduction program was implemented a federal wolf biologist told me that there is no difference in sizes of wolves, all are Canis lupus species. However the rule of body size is “further north, the bigger the body” of animals such as the Alaska moose compared to the Idaho moose. Same for wolves: the re-introduced red wolf and the Mexican wolf are much smaller than the “Idaho native wolf” which in turn is smaller than the Alberta “buffalo wolf”. It is a matter of a larger body mass retaining more heat in a colder climate.

So we had documented wolves and breeding pairs, why was the non-native “non-essential” much larger pack wolf introduced? What went wrong? What were the Governor and the Direction of the Fish and Game thinking about? Now we have a problem. Personally I liked the small Idaho timber wolf and enjoyed seeing the black wolf hunt mice near my ranch. Since 2000 the Lolo Creek “buffalo wolf” pack has made regular visits to my ranch and leave their tape worm Echinococcus granulosus infested droppings topped with whitetail deer rump hair along the driveway. The latest visit was a month ago at 10 am, fifteen feet from the front door. His track measured 5 ½ inches by 6½ inches. Meeting this large predator at the front door close-up is a fearsome and a chilling experience. I have faced a charging grizzly bear in Alaska, and I can tell you that when the yellow eyes of a 100 pound plus wolf stare at you from a few feet away, it is like facing a charging bear; maybe worse, a bear doesn’t look you in the eye.

Another change from the “Idaho Wolf” is the sightings are frequently wolf packs of eight to 12 wolves especially along the Lolo Motor Road where dried wolf scat can be seen in abundance. Perhaps four-wheeling could be hazardous by inhaling airborne tapeworm spores? I wish some folks in the city that are much kinder to this large predator could experience them as we country folks do. I am sure that they would love their children, dogs, horses, cats (cows, sheep, goats and chickens) the same as us.
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Wolf opinion from afar

I reside in NC, but travel both the far West and Alaska in my work as an industrial electrician. The wolf issue is just another example of total misrepresentation of the facts. The wolves are decimating moose, elk and deer population in the West as well as Alaska. Besides income from outfitting, in rural Alaska hunting provides a very important source of food verses expensive food imported often by air. The wolf supporters have no reguard for people who are more important than animals!!!
The fact is that Native Americans did control the wolves, if there were too many in an area they "denned", that is killed the pups.
This issue comes down to the question of who is more important people or animals?
Answer: People

Pray and Shoot Daily.
Lee Jones(Celtgun

"Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest" Benjamin Franklin
 
The Summer issue of Range Magazine has coverage of the wolf issue. There are also numerous articles in their archives.

http://www.rangemagazine.com

For anybody living in the western states, particularly the mountain country, IMO it's a worthwhile subscription. Lots of coverage of public lands issues.
 
I spend a lot of time in the Idaha panhandle and is one of the reasons why I am always armed even close to the town I am in. There is a popular walking trail near Coeur d'Alene called Mineral ridge which is only 10 miles from Rose Lake where they shot a grizzly bear last year, south of the I 90 and that is quite close to the place where a pack of wolves ripped apart a hunting dog two weeks ago. I was not aware that it is a completely different sort of wolf than the idaho wolf which is native to these woods. The canadian wolf takes down caribou which are faster and more numerous that Idaho elk, making a better match between predator and prey. Most people in Idaho resent this interloper returning to take livestock and pets, let alone the personal risk back in these woods again. They also appear to be fearless of man and didn't even run when warning shots were fired. You will hear more about this issue all of the time.
 
I am kind of torn on this issue. Personally I would like to see the wolves returned to the Rockies and high plains. I would also like to see bison herds and elk herds free ranging on the high plains. And I would also like to see the grizzly return to the southern rockies. There is a very small group of them in the San Juans of Colorado, but they are so few in numbers as to be basically extinct, although one did maul an outfitter in 1979. Anyways.

I know that the canadian wolf isn't exaclty the same as the american wolves we exterminated. But I believe it is close enough IF it is managed right. I think there should be realistic levels for wolf populations established and maintained. I feel that this number should be maintained through sport hunting if possable.

I also have a theory that the wolf packs of old were sustianed largely by bison calves and bison winter kills. Without these ressources they have turned on other big game herds, with very noticable effects. I think the wolf numbers will have to be kept pretty low to mitigate this damage. Simply put, without millions of bison to support them we can't have many wolves. They will get by on elk, deer, & moose for a while but that isn't viable for the long term. We will have to hunt/trap them.

At least that is what I believe. My mind can be changed/influenced with facts.

Also, why were the elk numbers of the northern rockies so low even before the wolves were brought back? The Colorado division of wildlife estimated the herd here to be a little over 300,000 this year. Of course we don't have wolves either. I know weather may play a role in this too though. We are farther south, but we are also a good bit higher in elevation, I don't know if that balances out or not. Most elk hunting I have done here has been a min. of 9000ft and a max for elk of a little over 12,000ft with the high peaks being 13000-14440 ft high. Anyways, just thinking out loud.
 
I also have a theory that the wolf packs of old were sustianed largely by bison calves and bison winter kills. Without these ressources they have turned on other big game herds, with very noticable effects. I think the wolf numbers will have to be kept pretty low to mitigate this damage. Simply put, without millions of bison to support them we can't have many wolves. They will get by on elk, deer, & moose for a while but that isn't viable for the long term. We will have to hunt/trap them.
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The wolves have high numbers of Bison to predate in Yellostone but instead they decimate the Elk pop.
 
crying wolf

I have a friend jim who had a couzen a 19 year old canadian folk singer,she was killed while hiking,by 2 supposed coyotes,she couldnt carry a gun to protect herself,not that she would have,c m p says they got the animals that did it,oooo baby baby its a wild world,but remember theres a lot a bad and beware,as the song goes, or hungry like the wolf, I say shoot em on sight,n let the morons in la la land find some new cause ,if the wolf dosnt fear man,they will run amuck,alot of wolfs have been mistook as coyotes here in michigan.:cool:
 
The wolf management is absent since they won't take it off the endangered list. Predation against elk is not surprising given the similarity with caribou to elk. However, it appears that caribou must be a bit faster than elk in getting away from the wolf. The balance of nature is really remarkable. How about the ferrel cat wiping out australian species. The Canadian wolf is already causing considerable damage to livestock. It will only get worse if the government does not allow sensible management, but when is our government sensible?
 
My own personal observations are in perfect agreement with those of Shoney and Stiofan. My old elk hunting area was fairly close to Yellowstone and the elk numbers have dropped incredibly since they brought the wolves in. My current elk area in the southern Bighorns and Owl Creek Range hasn't been affected so far because the wolf numbers is still fairly low, but growing. It is a fact that the wolves have moved into the Bighorns though because they documented at least 110 kills of domestic sheep there last year. So they are definitely coming and spreading.

If it's not bad enough what they do to elk though, look at their effect on moose numbers. My old moose hunting area has been completely taken off the list of hunt areas due to the wolf problem. It used to teem with moose but now it is extremely rare to even see a moose track. At least the elk tend to band together as a herd during calving season. Moose tend to be solitary creatures and a mother moose doesn't stand a chance at protecting her calf against a whole pack of wolves.
 
Hey folks... I am ignorant to this issue, hence why I posed my understanding so that it may be corrected.

I'm not a hunter, just a 'classic-style gun' enthusiast.

I had no idea the Canadian wolf was that different from the 'American' wolf...

Have these things attacked people, as in not defensive attacks, but offensive (prey) attacks?

Do these wolves differ from the type found in Alaska?

Educate me!
 
I have not heard of a single instance of these imported wolves attacking people. I guess it's conceivable that a small child could be at risk, but I don't worry about my personal safety when it comes to wolves.

I would guess that the Canadian wolves are pretty similar to those in Alaska.
 
mothermopar, a major problem about any wolf attacks or purported wolf attacks is that unless an Official Person was involved, there is general disbelief by the media or the World of Official People.

That is, if you successfully fend off a wolf attack, you are likely to be accused of not knowing the difference between a wolf and a large dog. And, since it's Official Policy to love, hug and cherish wolves, dangers must be downplayed to the greatest extent possible.

Pardon my cynicism...
 
Living in SOCAL, we obviously don't have wolves... but coyotes?!?! Plenty. As of a few months ago, they have been seen in daylight, in the middle of neighborhoods patrolling for small animals (pets). Some have taken small dogs while being walked on leash by the owners. I believe the state came in to trap them and now I'm seeing more rabbits around (go figure).

Anyway, these coyotes had even approached people (within a couple feet) despite those folks making a rukus to get them away. Someone had to be feeding the darn things would be my guess.

I know one thing, my male Doberman (90lbs) hates the suckers and loses his mind whenever he hears them (literally goes ballistic, full defense mode).
 
Alaska444 is on the money up here in North Idaho. Teh wolf that weas introduced into this area is not native here. It is a much larger and aggressive wolf and they are interbreeding already. I live north of Coeur d'Alene and it's not uncommon to hear the wolves calling in the late evenings. the wolves here have decimated the elk populations and the coyotes have taken care of most of the free roaming domesticated pet type animals. It's rare to see a cat wandering around anymore.

If anybody wants to hunt Moose up here it's a completely different story.
Plenty of Black Bear, Grizzley and Moose, but slim pickings for Elk and trophy sized deer. The Mulies stay high up in the mountains so they seem to be faring okay.

The local bumper sticker of the day says this:
Wolves, Smoke a pack a day!

regards, Gearchecker
 
Here in North Central Idaho our braintrust (Idaho Fish and Game) have decided to exterminate elk from the area. Not only are there " Green Tags" which allow cow elk to be hunted in August with a rifle, then comes the stick and string crowd in September, then the general elk season in Oct. that now allows cows to be killed for 3 days with a bull tag, then the muzzel crowd get their turn, and now they just annouced a "Special Cow Elk season " that wii run the entire month of Jan. 2011. These idiots are going to ruin elk herds here, the way that wolves ;AKA land sharks; have ruined the elk herds in the Bitteroot, Clearwater, and the Panhandle areas. As a rifle hunter of elk and deer and someone who wants my kids and their kids to have a good opportunity to hunt someday, this is just sickening to me. We will be harvesting cows still nursing their young, cows who are carrying calves, and some yearling cows that will never have any calves at all. Add all of that up and with MUCH fewer cows having calves the herd number will fall like a rock. The Idaho Fish and Game only really cares about 1 thing,,,,,,any guesses ? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ What a sad statement that is:mad:
 
Thanks for the education people.

As for the Elk populations...

I can't believe that a state agency would allow for the cows to be hunted when they're with (or pregnant with) babies! That's fuqed up! Not to say the sick SOB that would shoot a pregnant/nursing Elk for sport!!! How could you pull the trigger on a mother Elk that's pregnant or nursing? That's killing two with one shot?!?!

I'm cool with hunting, but hunt the adults... leave the kids out of it.

Sweet Jesus... I wish you all the best (Elk too).
 
My brothers had wolf issues in the Flattops in Colorado year before last.The DOW said "No way" then later had to say maybe so.
There is one thing folks overlook.In the days of wolves,bears,and lions,and anything else dangerous,it was a given:You CAN shoot ,spear,trap,etc as necessary to take care of yourself.In the ABSENCE of wolves,dreamy ,idealistic ideas become law.Great law for dream wolves.When an individual is forced to suffer physically or economically because the wolf is not a dream wolf,it is a real wolf,the old "Gee,it felt good for us to make a good intention law"
I wish there was a good way to make stupidity painful for folks who make feel good,good intention laws that hurt individuals.
 
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