Road Rage - Stay in Car or Exit?

Immobilized?

booker_t nailed some scenarios where the vehicle is, in fact, immobilized. In those scenarios, getting out of the car may very well be the best move.

Note: If I were to see the guy closing with a baseball bat, or some other obvious melee type weapon, I would probably opt to remain in the car, but with a weapon ready. If I were to see a guy come out, raving, but with no obvious weapon, I have to try to decide if he might just have a gun.

A lot of us do have guns, and they aren't often visible.

A car will not protect you against a gun; just check out boxotruth.com to see the Buick o'truth. Bullets zip right through sheet metal.

Engine blocks will protect; wheels will also afford some protection. Those don't help much when a nut is next to your car, and you are in the car.

Note: Navy security training way back when, we were taught to use engine block as cover, or take prone position behind, and shoot around, wheels. Doors, not so much. Staying in car, no way.

Subsequent Army training (assuming IED or shootout), also about extricating immobilized vehicle, with possible exception of turret gunner, but driver and passengers take external, covering positions.

Worst case, he's on your rear quarter with a weapon. You're in a seat. Not easy to turn to engage. He only has to shoot through a side window. (Read the Congressional report on the four Blackwater guards who were killed in Iraq; they died in just this manner - immobilized vehicles due to traffic jam, guys came up from behind and shot guards from rear quarters. Of course, these weren't road ragers, but they were assailants with firearms, vs guys in a vehicle, at least one of whom was a former SEAL.)

Now, in many cases a vehicle isn't truly immobilized. One way to help yourself avoid being pinned in, is to get in the defensive driving habit of stopping far enough behind the car in front of you that you can see its rear wheels. This allows enough room to maneuver around him to either side, assuming you aren't stuck in the middle of a multi-lane traffic jam.
 
Here's how I dealt with the NJ crazy drivers. I bought a '00 silver and blue crown vic ex-va state trooper car, tinted the windows, reinstalled the bull bar, its got the factory spotlight, and I threw my NRA hat on the rear deck facing. The car screams "BEHAVE" and "DON'T MESS WITH ME". Incidents of me getting cut off, screwed with, etc, dropped to near zero. Now when I take my mustang of my wife's civic our all bets are off and I get a clear picture to how people react differently to my daily driver.
 
What's all this talk about being blocked in? As a driver, YOU are responsible for how much space is in front of your vehicle when you stop. Unless the guy in front of me backs up, I always have a way out.

Take a Smith or other defensive driving course sometime. It really helps. It helps your temper on the road as well when "getting there" takes priority over "getting there fast".
 
As has been stated if the car is operable there are few situation that would require that you exit the vehicle. Even if you are blocked in you can make a hole, hop a curb... Getting out of the car will most likely escalate the situation as you will be seen by said nut job as confronting his/her manhood. If he has an impact weapon the car will offer some decent protection and leave a trail of evidence that he was the aggressor should the situation devolve into a lethal force one. Nothing says I was defending myself against a madman like your shiny new car with bat/pipe/golf club marks all over it. If he has a gun then you can use the car to gain distance or to squish him.

About the only reason I can see abandoning a car would be if it's completely disabled and your mad man is shooting at you from cover.

If your caught outside the car for some reason you can still use the car as concealment, some cover and as a barricade between you can your nut job. Let him smash the hell out of it so you can have evidence of his crazy behavior.
 
What's all this talk about being blocked in? As a driver, YOU are responsible for how much space is in front of your vehicle when you stop. Unless the guy in front of me backs up, I always have a way out.
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Might work if you're on a small road with one or two lanes. If there are lanes on each side and you're not the first car in line then you CAN be blocked in. Even when there aren't cars on each side, there can be other physical obstructions like bus stops, light poles, concrete dividers etc. that severely hamper a getaway. That's not even getting into situations where someone might be TRYING to block you in.

It's true that in some cases you can avoid being blocked in. In other situations not so much.
 
My Plan (with a capital P!) for what to do in case of road rage:

1. As long as I can keep moving without breaking any laws, I'll keep driving and try to lose the other driver. If I can see their license plate, I try to memorize it.

2. If I have to stop- if the other driver blocks me or if I have to obey a signal, then I will bring up 911 on my cell so I can dial quickly if the situation escalates. I will also at this point lock the doors if I forgot to when I got in the car, and roll up the windows if they're down.

3. If the other driver exits their car or gets aggressive while driving- or rams into my car while stopped, I call 911 and put the phone on speaker so I don't have to waste a hand on it and provide as much information as I can as often as I can.

4. I keep a small can of pepper spray in the car, easily accessible. If the other driver gains access to my vehicle (they'd have to break the window b/c I sure ain't gonna open it for them), I'll use it to buy myself time to either escape or get a better weapon in my hand- keeping in mind that most of the time it will be the only weapon readily at hand since I can't CCW in my home state.

5. If I manage to escape, I will keep updating the 911 operator as to my position, both in case I am followed and as insurance against the other driver accusing me of fleeing the scene.

6. As soon as I believe it is safe to do so, I will pull over and wait for the police to arrive.

I think it's a pretty good plan, I just hope I never have to test it. I've been pretty lucky on the road... seven years driving, no accidents, no tickets. For the most part I enjoy driving and try to avoid high-traffic roads... most of the impatient dickheads stay on the major roads, so that nicely cuts most of the stress out of driving- I only ever use highways when I'm driving long-distance or need to be somewhere fast. Driving is my cool-off time.
 
While driving around yesterday, I took note of every time I turned onto a new road, or was stopped, and thought about all the possibilities.

Unless you are exclusively in a rural area, you are constantly being boxed in. Even if you leave enough room to get around the car in front of you, there are a plethora of obstacles on either side. That said, in a rural area, a one-lane or narrow two-lane road might present issues, as it is common for rural roads to be lined by large trees, fences, and deep drainage ditches. I've been on narrow roads where one side is a sheer mountain face, the other a cliff. Not much room to maneuver under full throttle, especially if it is a steep inclide or downgrade.

Obstacles I noted that even a typical SUV or medium-duty truck (8-10" of ground clearance) would not be able to overcome included curbs, mailboxes, lamp posts, trees, buildings, retainer walls, guard rails, single-lane or narrow bridges and tunnels.. maybe some of these things you'd be able to get past, but with significant damage to the vehicle which may render it undrivable anyway.

Look around when you're entering or exiting a parking deck. Or just leaving the grocery store. When I leave my local grocery, it's a 2-lane access road with 8" curbs on either side, lined with dense shrubs, one side going uphill. If it's a red-light and you're surrounded by cars (as I was) in one of these choke points, even a lifted Jeep or F-350 is going to be stuck in place.
 
Just because a car is in front of you does not mean you cannot PUSH IT out of the way. Ram em outta the way. Yes your car will take damage but who cares. It means getting shot or leaving... Ram it.
 
If your choices are clear cut - get shot or get boxed in, then ramming may be an option. However, I think it is important to remember that ramming can be seen as lethal force in its own right and that police have shot people in self-defense under similar scenarios.

I would want to be real careful about adopting a tactic that could be construed as a lethal threat if I am trying to avoid using lethal force.
 
I think that I would just stay in the car. Police already called due to speed dial. I would try to keep moving if at all possible. If things got ugly do what you have to do to protect you and yours.
 
Screw legality..... that's something that gets determined months or years later. You can either be at the trial, or be in the ground.

If you are involved, boxed in, and the person gets out armed and they are capable of using lethal force imminently ... you have every right to use equal force back. Gun == Car. Both are deadly weapons.
 
you have every right to use equal force back
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Unless the car that you need to move is occupied by someone else, in which case you could be construed as deploying lethal force against an innocent. Not such a clear-cut scenario then.
 
I'm going to look out for number 1 here. I'm not saying plowing into someone at 70mph... merely ramming them stop a stop light. There is a very low probability that is lethal to the other car's occupants. You could say the same about shooting at a perp... you are putting innocent lives at risk from strays. It is what it is... those rules got thrown out when someone is forcing a life threatening situation upon you.
 
Was driving into work just today, I live in a rural area, I drive the limit cause at 3.25 per gallon I dont want to waste any. So I am going 40 or so on a winding twisty road 10 degrees and deer are moving. 2 folks, both young was behind me tailgatting me to no end. I get to a place where I can turn in and let em go, they both FLIP ME OFF as they floor it and go by me.

Act like this and you will be in a road rage situation, I laff at them and go on, but another might get upset and act ugly. Dont do it. Isnt worth it. Becides I know their folks and next firedept breakfast I will let them know how their kids act in public. Small town living.
 
markj

Becides I know their folks and next firedept breakfast I will let them know how their kids act in public. Small town living.
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maybe you can get their parents' permission to brandish a firearm next time.

KIDDING
 
maybe you can get their parents' permission to brandish a firearm next time.
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I work at a college so no guns. :) I get a huge laff whenever I see a kid that hit a deer or run into the ditch. I stop, ask if I can help, call someone with my cell or hook up and pull them out.
 
Things are different out in the country. I grew up in a relatively small town as well in upstate NY and you would stop and help someone out. You think that happens in NJ? Heck no! If you are stranded on the side of the turnpike you would be lucky if traffic merges out of the right lane or slows down under 80mph :eek: I've been there... its not fun having people blast past that close and fast, especially when half of them are too busy talking on the cell or texting to notice you parked.
 
sirsloop: Just because a car is in front of you does not mean you cannot PUSH IT out of the way. Ram em outta the way.
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Push it into what, the next car in line that they are probably 1' from? Ram them into what, the intersection with oncoming traffic?

Who says that the other car is even going to move? That person likely has their brakes on, and if they get hit from behind, they aren't exactly going to throw it into neutral and let you roll them wherever is convenient.

Who says your vehicle is in any way capable of pushing the other? A typical economy car isn't going to push a truck very far. A truck with a high bumper isn't going to push a plastic box from Japan, it's going to cave those panels in. There's a good chance that with any combination, between your bumper, their bumper, and the various frame members, the two vehicles get hooked up and now you're really stuck. Meanwhile the guy who may have been raging and even considering accosting you is laughing his butt off, gets back in his car and high tails it. You just did the work for him.

What if it's a box truck, a bus, a school bus, or a big rig in front of you? What if it's a mother with her infant in a baby seat that you can't see? Just put the pedal down and ram it, git-R-dun style?? Nah.. that wouldn't be considered potentially lethal. Right.

..sometimes I wonder..
 
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My car has a push bar on the front...lol. Not gonna be able to push something real large, but it certainly could move a econocar or a light truck outta the way. :D

option 1: stay in car and get shot
option 2: get out of the car, hope to flee, possibly get shot
option 3: push a car out of the way, drive away, possibly get shot

I pick option 3, then option 2 if that fails. If any innocent people get hurt its on the aggressor with the gun and the attitude. Happened before... three guys attacked someone, the victim shot and killed one of the perps, the remaining two were apprehended and convicted of the murder of their conspirator even though it was the victim that shot him. That's the way it should be.

Btw, if me ramming someone prevents me from getting shot by some lunatic because he finds it humerous... I WON! I take a ding on insurance, maybe have to pay out of pocket to repair my car, hopefully I got his plate number, file a police report, and the guy is later arrested for aggravated assault.
 
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