Road Rage Incident In PA

These kinds of things are what's really got me interested in getting concealed carry, as I drive quite a bit between state lines and have seen a number of people on the interstates and in the cities who gave me pause.
 
I think if one were to have a car gun or use there CCW while driving, perhaps some of the new bonded JHPs like Hornady Critical Duty would be nice to have. They are advertised to expand but hold together to defeat different barriers such as auto glass and door panels, etc. One never knows if the only option would be to shoot through either your own windshield or theirs etc.
 
last thought was "Why didn't I bring a good gun on this trip?"

I am thinking his last thought was "Why didn't I bring a good gun on this trip?"
 
Back in 2002, I had some crazy nut come after me on the SR51 in Phoenix. I was 20 at the time, and didn't have a gun in the car. I was stopped at a red light, waiting to turn onto the freeway, and the light turned green. He didn't go. I honked to get his attention, then switched to the outer turn lane and passed him since he was still going slowly.

Well, something snapped in his head or something and he was coming after me, matching my every move and trying to pull up on my left side with his passenger window down. I did everything I could to avoid him. Fortunately I was driving a 2001 V6 Cougar, a fairly quick car, but I was still a fairly inexperienced driver. It's a miracle I didn't get into a wreck trying to avoid him, as I tailgated other vehicles closely in any gap I could find to put semis and other large vehicles between me and him. Eventually I got a straightaway and his older vehicle couldn't keep up with mine, and he exited. I estimate he'd chased me for around 5 miles, at speeds approaching 100 mph.

After that I started carrying my Ruger P90 in the door pouch. The large handgun had been a gift from my father a few years prior, and its leather case was a perfect fit for the door pouch and was completely invisible from the outside with the doors closed. I could unzip it one-handed if I had to. Never had to use it, but came close about 18 months ago when some road rager actually got out of his car and stormed up to my passenger window. Had he tried to break that window, his life would have been forfeit as I would have feared for the life of my passenger at that point.
 
Did you use the emergency brake to do the 180?
Click to expand...

Yes, E-Brake and turn wheel at same time. Brake lights won't come on and alert the perp. Practice at slow spped in a large parking lot. Make sure your direction of travel is AWAY from any poles, trees, curbs, etc. while learning.

I found out that kids shouldn't be in the car when doing the reverse 180. My 9 yo daughter was in the car when I went down a dead end valley. She was strapped into the regular seatbelts.
I reversed and at about 40, cut the wheel to the right and went to neutral/then drive as it swapped ends. She came out of the seat and I caught her with my right arm as she went over the front seat. She was hysterically laughing and even though she said she wouldn't, she told mom right away what happened.:eek:

Practice in snow or dirt, or a wet parking lot. Offside front wheel often comes off the ground about a foot on dry pavement. Watch a scene on TV. The roads are wet down before stunts. Take not of previous skidmarks in those scenes and you'll see it's practiced 'in place'.

Every winter and in mud, etc., I practice. Because of the practice, I can maneuver radically in an emergency lane change, or skid and I'm down the road before I'm able to think about what had just happened.
 
Again based on all the local coverage: the victim was a car enthusiast, he knew how to drive, and he had a pretty extensive record of speeding violations. In no way am I implying that he deserved this, by all local accounts he was a great guy.
Click to expand...

That only means he drove fast. Master the 4-wheel drift and get to where you're as comfortable driving sideways and backwards and steering with the drive wheels and you can out run them nearly every time. Often without breaking the speed limit if you can get on a winding road. A straightaway chase will get you nowhere.
I taught my son these tricks and he's a state trooper and nobody has gotten away from im yet, though I might give him a race for his money day for laughs.


I have been in several pretty bad cases of road rage. The last one was a couple of years ago and it got really ugly after I thoughtlessly gave the finger to a guy who was tailgating me. He tried to run me off the road and I ended up stuck at an intersection with him next to me. I had to swallow my pride and avoid any eye contact while he stood outside my car and screamed at me. Maybe it was my willingness to let him feel like a big man, or maybe it was the fact that he saw me staring straight ahead with my phone in one hand and a tire iron in the other.

Either way I knew that I got lucky. Now I pull over and let every aggressive driver pass me and find someone else to rage on.
Click to expand...
That's the way to do it.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I am not so sure trying to maneuver your car to the rear is such a good idea. Yes it puts you where it's harder for the other guy to shoot, but it surrenders all initiative, the lead driver can now force your vehicle to stop and then he has all the time in the world for much better shots then he had chasing you.
 
In this particular case he was on the interstate, so turning wouldn't be an option (if there wasn't as exit), and "four wheel drifting" wouldn't have really done much.
It has been in the news a lot up here, and I've had a hard time thinking of a realistic solution. Even if he'd had a gun, it's got to be close to impossible to shoot a gun one handed and backwards while trying to call the police and maintain control of a vehicle.
I think maybe the biggest lesson is to drive passively and not respond/escalate when other people get aggressive.
I've often thought a LED "sorry about that" sign you could activate on the reader window would be useful for when you unintentionally cut people off.
 
New vehicle horns, projected images....

I agree with parts of the last post.
Aside from safe driving & common sense/good judgement, a few improvements or modifications could help motorists too.

I was thinking that major auto makers(GM, Ford, Toyota, etc) could have new digital or computerized horn signals so motorists can honk different simple messages to each other to convey information.
"I'm backing up." "Thank you." "I'm changing lanes/passing." "My vehicle is disabled, need help." etc.
Some drivers blare their car stereos so horns or any alarm won't help. :rolleyes:
US car makers & the auto industry in general is notorious for avoiding or lobbying against new safety features. :p
Would these simple steps help drivers or motorists? Sure. Will it happen anytime soon? I highly doubt it.

I'd add too, don't think road rage events or aggressive drivers are the only problem.
The former US Surgeon General; Richard Corona(a SF medic in SE Asia & trained SWAT officer) had a subject attack him as he rushed to a traffic accident to render aid. Corona was forced to shoot the violent man who attacked him. Corona was investigated by law enforcement but later cleared. The topic did come up during his formal conformation hearings before he took the US Surgeon General post.
 
Dayman - if our local news has this right it was the PA turnpike. IF (and that's a big IF) they are correct, your statement is even more apropos since our turnpike has very few exits and/or service plazas. The Harrisburg stations did show pictures of the vehicle in the median of a four-lane of some kind. Either way, getting to a populated area would have been difficult. And, as AK said, we do seem to have more than our share of control freaks here.
BTW, this was the SECOND incident of its kind that night. About 8 hours earlier another driver rammed and shot up another pick-up (we're told) with at least one bullet barely missing the victim's head. Fortunately, in this incident, only the vehicle was damaged
 
Help; highway patrols, lawsuits....

I'd add that road rage events or attacks(car-jackings/ambush) can be difficult in remote areas or periods(night-time). Bad weather or natural disasters make things worse! :eek:

A few years ago, family members of a elderly couple filed a wrongful death lawsuit against a state LE agency(the NC or SC highway patrol, if I recall).
The couple had a serious traffic accident on a state highway, crashed & the vehicle/bodies were not recovered for several weeks.

I'm not sure of the outcome of the civil action but a lesson Id learn from that is not to rely on sworn LE to rush to your aid or rescue.
I'd add that it's not a insult or criticism of a any state troopers or highway patrol either. Many of them need to cover 100s of miles or patrol huge sections by themselves.
 
Master the 4-wheel drift
Click to expand...

This is implausible in this situation. There are to many variables to 'drift' when being pursued. A drift is a controlled skid, it bleeds off energy and over all makes you slower. To much oversteer or not enough countersteer you'll spin out. If you assailant means to ram off the road you... If you drift you're already doing half his work for him.

Also skids on public roads have their own variables crowned roads, ice, snow, water, gravel, dirt, changes in elevation, heaves in the surface and other imperfections in the road alter how your car will respond.

Those who push the limits of their abilities abruptly find them. Often with disastrous results.

I would say the victim in this situation had the same idea (no slight to the victim intended) he thought he could out drive the attacker and push it to far.
 
Last edited:
This is implausible in this situation. There are to many variables to 'drift' when being pursued. A drift is a controlled skid, it bleeds off energy and over all makes you slower. To much oversteer or not enough countersteer you'll spin out. If you assailant means to ram off the road you... If you drift you're already doing half his work for him.

Also skids on public roads have their own variables crowned roads, ice, snow, water, gravel, dirt, changes in elevation, heaves in the surface and other imperfections in the road alter how your car will respond.

Those who push the limits of their abilities abruptly find them. Often with disastrous results.

I would say the victim in this situation had the same idea (no slight to the victim intended) he thought he could out drive the attacker and push it to far.
Click to expand...
Yup. Anyone proposing 4 wheel drifting in a modern vehicle is, well...talking out his backside. 4 wheel drifting, once upon a time in the days of live axles, certainly a FUN way to get around a track, but it hasn't been the quickest way around in many years. And simply won't work in any way, shape or form with a front drive vehicle.

Fact is, counselling a total stranger to use stunt driving techniques is on public roads is reckless and irresponsible, and endangers not just the players in the "road rage" event but everyone around them as well.

It's well to learn your capabilities and limitations as a driver through advanced driver training courses such as that taught at Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc. race driving schools. You'll learn the fundamentals of the physics applicable to vehicles at speed, how to induce and control oversteer and understeer, and how to recognize incipient skids and work your way out of them. But you can't do it over the internet. You can't even do it by watching a television show or video. You've got to do it under controlled conditions under the watch of someone who knows not just what the hell HE'S doing, but how to fix your bad habits too.
 
Better yet....

If you have the time & $$$, Id suggest going to a driver/EVOC course like Bill Scott Raceway in WV. That program teaches many US military tier one(SEALs, ACE, ISA, etc) operators & EP(exec protection) agents.
Gryphon Security; www.gryphonsecurity.com does special driver training too. They deal with corporate security & PMCs(private military contractors).

Other car makers like BMW & Range Rover offer driving classes too. It's not tactical or evading methods but they do teach how to drive in bad weather or avoiding common problems.
 
I did oversimplify a bit. I did say to practice in a parking lot. The point I was trying to make is to learn to be comfortable when the car or truck isn't 'pointed straight'.

Four wheel drifting isn't exactly a drift with FWD. That really takes practice. It's more of a controlled skid. We have a narrow two lane road I've practiced on and I can totally waste new tires in one 2- mile trip.

Evasive driving schools are where it's safest.
I have a hard time at times getting the basic idea across.

Uh, everybody does hit an empty parking lot as soon as it snows to get familiar with the handling, right? And clear all the snow off first to unload the springs and make the car feel natural, instead of squating with the springs pre-compressed and the balance way out of whack, right?
 
The driving in that video was excellent, by everyone, bad guy and cops both.
As for the venerable four wheel drift, it's still alive and well at stage rallies, stock car races, sprint cars, 'etc.
But mostly on dirt and gravel.
Back in the days of hard, skinny tires, it was the fast way around bends and fast corners, even on asphalt.
But todays wide and sticky tires and front and four wheel drive require a different technique.
 
Most any typical carry round will go through a vehicle. The problem is deflection, and the variables there are endless. Impact bars, windshield thickness/angle, and height of vehicle. Do you shoot the tires? Can you?

I work in autobody, I've seen so many different vehicles that I couldn't tell you how to disable one, with another vehicle or firearm. There is no real offensive method to be sure of. Guns/gunfights are not meant for vehicles. A typical vehicle is meant for point A to point B, and nothing more. Some vehicles have different options available, and that can be beneficial.

If you know there is a real threat following, go above the speed limit, draw attention. If someone else calls the police, great, but have a way to prove it. Use your cell phones picture/video if available. Not all of us have the money for tires, safety features, and time to practice tactical driving techniques. Everyone should indeed test the limits of their vehicles, but only to their own abilities and safely, mostly for those areas most driven. Remember that all vehicles are subject to the same issues presented in firearms, they are not perfect and only work as well as you operate them. What you do can hurt people.

Looking at crashes, deploying air bags are the most distracting, not to mention the explosives in the seat belts. Most sensors for these are on the front impact bar, behind the bumper cover. It requires a certain amount of "G's" to set one off. Letting your rear end get hit causes issues in control, be ready to head in a safe direction. This only really works in open areas. Closed areas are always conditional. There is no clear answer either way, but if you leave your vehicle for cover, you may be hit by their vehicle...
 
If he was pursued for ten miles, wouldn't there be the possibility of going to a populated area where many people were around? How about driving to a police station?
Click to expand...
+1
Chances are I will be armed therefore I will be calling the cops and driving to an area where I can have an advantage of engagement especially after he started ramping and shooting at me. This is when your choice of carry matters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top