Risk it?

This is my post on topic "Nerds with guns"

I was checking my companies' new Employee Handbook and according to the section on

"Concealed Weapons" it reads,
"Unauthorized possession, use or sale of weapons, firearms or explosives on work premises is forbidden, in accordance with state and local laws. Violations of this policy will result in disciplinary action"
That is all.

All of us "gun guys" were talking together during lunch today and our consensus was that we can carry in the office as long as we had CCW license. After all, if we have state CCW license we are "authorized" by our state.

It seems that the new handbook was written by our CFO and he is into guns. Rumor has it that he carries a .44mag revolver in his brief case and that our janitor once saw him putting it on his hip one night after working late. I guess he wanted to be able to carry in the office too.

Wow, I work for "gun" friendly company full of gun carrying nerds

I guess compared to most of you other guys I have to consider myself very luck.
 
"When there is reasonable cause to believe that an employee is in possession of a controlled substance, alcohol, weapons, or stolen property (ie: first hand eyewitness reports of the violation)"

If nobody ever sees it, how could they know? Keep the weapon concealed and your mouth shut.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
 
Every good Mormon boy should have at least a passing familiarity with the 11th Commandment. :)

pax


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"Is there anything wrong with a woman preferring the dignity of an armed citizen? I don't like to be coddled and I don't like to be treated like a minor child. So I waive immunity and claim my right -- I go armed." -- Longcourt Phyllis in Beyond This Horizon by Robert Heinlein
 
My brother, who is a many-years stock broker with a very large company, has, for years, carried each day to work, his old style Colt's Detective Special, along with two Bianchi Speed Strips.

Of course, the N.Y. based brokerage has a "No Weapons" policy, but he values his life far more than he values the company's policy. He is VERY DISCREET. Not one of his colleages knows he carries. FWIW. J.B.
 
While I agree with the bulk of the advice given above, would like to mention another consideration. Your work is of value to your employer. Do you really want to contribute your valuable efforts to an organization that has no respect for and places no value on your rights or life?

Priorities and finite choices often make such idealistic considerations moot, I know. Just thought I'd bring it up.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Bentley

"Freedom is that instant between when someone tells you to do something and when you decide how to respond."
-Dr. Jeffrey Borenstein
 
As I read it there seems to be an " eye witness " requirement before a vehicle search . Correct me if I'm wrong . As long as no one knows what your weapon looks like it cannot be described . Even so , if no one knows you have it no one can report it .Better yet , have it partially dismantled . If it don't work it ain't a weapon . Kinda like considering a case of toothpicks to be a baseball bat .

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
Seronac,

I'm not an attorney, not qualifed to give legal advice, this is merely my personal position, etc. etc.

You can always get another job - you have ONE life.

Nobody has a right to put your life in jeopardy against your will. Only you
can determine what your “will” requires you to do.

Realistically evaluate the risk factors of your workplace and determine if YOU
will carry or not. If you carry, never tell anyone - not even your best friend!
Friendships wax and wane, “loose lips sink ships”, etc. and eventually rumors
will get you in trouble.

If you decide to leave the gun in your car, note how the directive is written.
Paragraph 1 explains what’s forbidden.
Paragraph 2 explains what possession means.
Paragraph 3 explains the right to search. But there’s an interesting twist
here:
... right to request inspection of ... employee vehicles...
... right to search any company owned [property]...

They can search their own property without your permission but they can only
request inspection of your vehicle.

If they so request, and your gun is in your vehicle, I see several possibilities:

- You let them search, they find nothing because they are incompetent or
don’t really want to find anything. No problem.

- You let them search and they find the gun. They can ignore it, reprimand
you, or fire you.

- You refuse to let them search in spite of the directive. Again, they can
ignore it, reprimand you or fire you.

- But what if you use their poorly written directive against them? They do
not indicate who will conduct the search, how it will be done, or when!

“I will comply with your directive. You request my car be inspected. I will
permit Joe Blow to inspect my car in private.” (Make sure Joe’s on your side
and won’t look in your toolbox or where ever you hide your forbidden
property.) You have complied with their request and their directive. You
immediately gave them permission to have your car searched on the spot! If
they fire you for that, you may have legal recourse. After all, you complied
with their directive and they STILL fired you!

Remember, you were looking for a job when you found this one. If you lose
this one, there’s another job out there somewhere. Don’t permit anyone to
endanger you against your will. Don’t permit your reputation to be dirtied
permanently by having them find a gun and then say you are a dangerous
person.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EricM:
I don't see the Constitution entering into play here as it's a private company setting its own rules. You can always quit if you don't like it. If it were I, I would ignore the rule but be very discrete. If you aren't carrying then park off company property when you want to do some shooting.[/B][/quote]
=================================
Absolutely! And any private company
is of course free, for example, to _require_
all its employees to be armed at all times, and refuse to do business with anyone it
prefers - like customers who go unarmed, right? Yeah, right bro, dream on.
This "private business is free..." polemical device is easily misused.
That it's beside the point could be easily inferred from the Coinneach succinct reply:
<Personally, I disregard "You can't protect yourself, and we won't protect you either" rules. They're immoral for one, and they're pushed by slimesucking bottom-feeders instead of people with a clear view of reality for another.>
The point can't be too strongly emphasised,
it's a stacked field: the company prohibiting its employees from carrying means of self-defence is _at the same time_ refusing to hold itself accountable for their
employees' safety.
So, the regulation is clearly inhuman and immoral, never mind "it's the
private company..." bleating.




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LowClassCat
Always willing to calculate my chances
 
To All:

I'd like to echo the comments made by some regarding the identification of a senior employee who is pro-RKBA.

You never know who might be a supporter.

As I'm a contract project manager, I tend to move from project to project across various companies. There are a number of ways to find out people's stand on RKBA issues - but the key is to do it discreetly and gently.

Here's an example.

I'm currently working at a mutual fund company in the Denver area. I was sitting in a director's office when I asked him (casually, but with premeditation) who he thought Bush/Gore might pick as a running mate.

He said, "I don't know. You heard anything?"

I replied, "Well... I have heard that Gore was thinking of picking Diane Feinstein."

Huge, annoyed, and visibly disgusted reaction. "Oh, come ON," he said.

There followed a brief discussion of gun control - and I had a political ally at senior levels of the company. Just like that.

Practice it. Find a question that you can ask which is both innocuous and does not reveal your own stand - and learn to use it.

We are all in a severe and critical struggle to preserve our freedoms.

FIND YOUR ALLIES.

You never know who might be on your side. And if he doesn't know you, he can't help you.

Best regards to all,

Robert Teesdale
robert_teesdale@yahoo.com
http://www.teesdale.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Teesdale: ,,,Find a question that you can ask which is both innocuous and does not reveal your own stand - and learn to use it.
,,,You never know who might be on your side. And if he doesn't know you, he can't help you.[/quote] Excellent idea. Do what you think is right, & keep quiet at first, but get that CCW, then feel your way around - you might be surprised (I was).
 
This seems to be a common company policy.

You must do what's necessary to provide for your family. We all take risks, daily.
Its just a question of, does one outweigh the other.
Lots of suggestions have been made. But since you sound like a smart fellow I'll wager you knew the answer before you asked the question.
True?

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Wear your PFD
 
Actually, I considered the question in more black-and-white terms, and realized that I needed people to help me see other sides and alternatives. So, I asked the question here on the forum because I wanted to get some other options - and I have. Thanks everyone.

I think what I'll do is just sort of wait and see. I don't have my CWW permit, yet, but the security is pretty good and the location isn't at all dangerous. Then, once I do get my CCW permit, I might "know the terrain" better. And, I'm going to discuss it with an attorney, too.

If I need to have firearms in my car while I'm at work, I'll probably just hide it in the vehicle very securely and park off of company property.

Thanks again to everyone for your feedback.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suckersrus:
This seems to be a common company policy.

You must do what's necessary to provide for your family. We all take risks, daily.
Its just a question of, does one outweigh the other.
Lots of suggestions have been made. But since you sound like a smart fellow I'll wager you knew the answer before you asked the question.
True?
[/quote]
 
A company would be foolhardy to NOT have a "no guns in company vehicles" policy. It would be STUPID.

Who knows how an employee will use a gun? It makes sense to have a policy against them so IF the employee chooses to ignore policy, the company has (hopefully) just a wee bit more distance from the liability.

It is like the policy of not resisting a robbery attempt. Everyone knows that some will resist and some will not, but having a company policy against resistance saves the company from the employee who decides that setting fire to the building would be an effective way to end the standoff.

Avoid liability, everybody. Lawyers are expensive.
 
Apparently they feel that an employee bent on homocidal rampage is going to be swayed by fear of losing his job. I wonder how many jobsite slayers are sitting in cells at this moment thinking, "Dang, I got fired."
 
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