Risk it?

Seronac

New member
I've been out of work for a while and will be starting a new job on Monday morning, July 31. (Hooray!) It's a slight career change and doesn't pay as well as my last job, but it still pays more than $0, and we need the money!

The problems is this: They have this "Safety and Security Policy" that is mostly about drugs and alcohol, but also says:

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"Possession of alcohol, drugs, weapons* or stolen property in company vehicles or on company premises (including parking lots, and entry roads) or anytime the employee is on work time is strictly prohibited.

"An employee will be considered in possession of drugs, alcohol, weapons or stolen property if any of the above is discovered on the employee's person, in the employee's work space, locker, office, personal belongings, personal vehicle while on company property...

"When there is reasonable cause to believe that an employee is in possession of a controlled substance, alcohol, weapons, or stolen property (ie: first hand eyewitness reports of the violation) the company reserves the right to request inspection of any item(s) the employee has brought on Company property, including employee vehicles parked on company premises. The Company reserves the right to search any company owned property such as lockers, workstations, etc. at any time."

"Any employee who refuses to comply with the request for inspection of their personal property or vehicle will be subject to terminiation."

* A "weapon" is defined as "any firearms, knives with blades longer than 3 inches, explosives, or any object that has been designed to inflict bodily harm."

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So, according to this, if I'm planning on going shooting before or after work, I had better not store MY firearms in the trunk of MY car while it is parked on company property or refuse to allow them to search MY car, or I could lose my job!

(The more I think about this, the angrier I get!)

So, the questions are:

1) Should I practice 'civil disobedience' and just ignore the rule?

2) Should I speak with them about it?

3) Should I speak with a lawyer about it?

4) Is this an allowable violation of the 2nd Amendment and my privacy?

5) Park OFF of company property!? ;)

As a good Mormon boy,
I feel a moral obligation to follow the rules and keep my job in order to provide for my family,
BUT, I also hold the Constitution in particularly high esteem.

I would be interested in whatever thoughts or comments that any of you have about this. Thanks.

BTW: The company is American Express - you may judge for yourself what to do in your relationship with them.

[This message has been edited by seronac (edited July 28, 2000).]
 
Personally, I disregard "You can't protect yourself, and we won't protect you either" rules. They're immoral for one, and they're pushed by slimesucking bottom-feeders instead of people with a clear view of reality for another. And yes, I'm prepared to accept the consequences of that disregard.

This is a choice you have to make for yourself.
 
I don't see the Constitution entering into play here as it's a private company setting its own rules. You can always quit if you don't like it. If it were I, I would ignore the rule but be very discrete. If you aren't carrying then park off company property when you want to do some shooting.
 
Also a good Mormon boy, and luckily for me I've never had to work at a place where I had to make that choice.

If you have a CCW then you are obeying the laws of the land.

This is a tough one, but personally I would just make sure that my method of concealment was very effective and go for it.

Parking off company property? If this is the American Express that I'm thinking of (right next to the police academy off 215) I don't know where you would park.
 
As yet another good Mormon boy, I agreee that you should make sure your concealment is effective, then go ahead and carry. You can always get another job. You only get ONE life.

And not a SINGLE "policy maker" in your new company will lose ONE MINUTE of sleep if you get killed on company property. Nor will they care for your family when you're looking at flowers from the wrong side.

Screw 'em.
 
Glad to know there are others like me! We should get together sometime for a shoot.

No CCW - yet. ;) Costs money, ya know. :(

This is American Express via Convergys, in Orem, at the old WordPerfect facility - lots of residential streets around.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Correia:
Also a good Mormon boy...

Parking off company property?...
[/quote]
 
Yup, another Mormon boy over here too - Just moving to Orem BTW with my new job.

I cant say what you should do - but we all have to make our own choices and live with them. A Tongan in the Sugar House area made my choice for me... I'll leave it at that. ;)
Hey - Are you on the Novell Campus?
I'm in the Novell Campus!

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited July 28, 2000).]
 
I know what you mean, those island boys can be REAL mean! But some of them are the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet.

Yep! Novell campus in Orem, that used to be WordPerfect.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by George Hill:
Yup, another Mormon boy over here too - Just moving to Orem BTW with my new job.

I cant say what you should do - but we all have to make our own choices and live with them. A Tongan in the Sugar House area made my choice for me... I'll leave it at that. ;)
Hey - Are you on the Novell Campus?
I'm in the Novell Campus!

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited July 28, 2000).]
[/quote]
 
Sure are a lot of you LDS guys around. Isn't Orem where Fort Knox Safes is located? Perhaps they could build something special for your trunk!
Regards
 
NAA Mini Revolvers and Gaurdians are made here too - Well, Provo Technically but its all the same to me... I dont know or care where Orem ends and Provo begins.
 
Once again I'm the ONLY non-Mormon in the room.
That aside, I have the number of a lawyer here in Utah that deals in Firearms law.

So the BBQ and Shoot is not on Sun then.
 
It's alright Meiji_man, you're welcome anytime. Promise we won't try to baptize you! :)

Could you e-mail me the name and number of that lawyer?

I can't make a BBQ and shoot on Sundays, Saturdays would be better...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Meiji_man:
Once again I'm the ONLY non-Mormon in the room.
That aside, I have the number of a lawyer here in Utah that deals in Firearms law.

So the BBQ and Shoot is not on Sun then.
[/quote]
 
Risk it, don't be an ass, and no one will know. If you get caught, it's only a job. I wouldn't talk to anyone about it, since that will mark you as a potential troublemaker, much more likely to be subject to "accidental" discoveries.

BTW, I think it's about time we incorporate the Constitution against corporations. This notion of the divine right of property owners to treat people like dirt has gone just about far enough.
 
Seronac:

While I have no idea if this would work in your situation, and could possibly prove to have unpleasant results (i.e. Amex expecting, and trying to catch you violating company policy) - I did hear that one individual handled the same situation in an interesting way.

He had his lawyer draft a document which stated that since company policy forbade his exercise of CCW rights/privileges, the company assumed all liability for any damages he or his heirs suffered as a result of his inability to defend himself.

As I understand it, the company lawyers were first dismissive, then concerned... and then they signed it.

This is a "water-cooler anecdote" and I have no idea if it's a true story. But interesting, nonetheless.

If I were in your situation, I'd probably ignore the policy and be absolutely discreet - and prepared to lose my job if caught. I agree with others that you'll have to use your best judgement in dealing with it.

My wife and I both think the policy stinks. Company vehicles is one thing; your own car is entirely another.

Best regards,

Robert Teesdale
robert_teesdale@yahoo.com
www.teesdale.com
 
I'm not a Mormon...but I have some good mormon freinds that I respect. I just got burned in too many 'religions' to try a new one...I'll worship God on my own without being told how 'bad' all but XX religion is.

On the carry issue..I prsonally would and do ignore that kind of thing-always have. Worked for Pizza Hut as a delivery driver-no carry policy. I did anyway. The boss got wind of it and told me.

Basically he said he'd 'heard' that I carried. [[M1 carbine in truck]] Said he would inspect the vehicle 'tomorrow'. :)

Then after finding no gun in the vehicle he said he'd have to make occaisional 'surprise' inspections on me...but that he'd let me know the day before he made the inspecvtion. Nice guy. :)

Do what's best for youmajor concern is the job market you are in. Good luck, Sat.

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Satanta, the Whitebear
Sat's Realm: http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html

My Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
 
I know its costs a little money, but the CCW is a must have. That gives you a lot stronger legal ground to stand on.

Looks like we are getting a lot of Utah TFLers again. Cool.
 
I'm thinking that I will as soon as I get the $.

But I'm a little concerned about privacy and such: when they come to get our guns, do you think that CCW holders will be first? Or is that paranoid?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Correia:
I know its costs a little money, but the CCW is a must have. That gives you a lot stronger legal ground to stand on.

Looks like we are getting a lot of Utah TFLers again. Cool.
[/quote]



[This message has been edited by seronac (edited July 29, 2000).]
 
I just strolled by this and all I have to say is " Oh snap, the Mormons are everywhere! We better call the Baptist to purge these serpents". Hee... Hee...Hee... Ok, its my own joke, I come from Baptist/COG land.

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DUM SPIRO SPERO
While I Breath I Hope
 
I am not a Mormon, but I play one on TV... :D
Just kidding, but seriously, I have never once checked a company's policy on carrying guns. I carried anyway because I choose to hold my fate in my own hands rather than letting it rest entirely in any crook that targets me.
The economy is (supposedly) great, jobs are (supposedly) plentiful, at least if you listen to the Democrats, so I would definitely risk it.
 
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