Right or wrong?
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Gunslinger
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Deacon Saves Granddaughter From Kidnappers
Charged With Assault in Daring Rescue
June 23, 2000
By Seamus McGraw
FULTON COUNTY, Ga. (APBnews.com) -- It was all one big blur, authorities said. His 13-year-old granddaughter was struggling to get out of the car, to escape from one of the men who had held her for days in a cheap motel room outside of Atlanta and sexually abused her.
The police were nowhere to be seen. And the driver wouldn't let her go, authorities said. He pinned the struggling girl inside the car and reached between the front seats for something, maybe a gun.
That's when Wallace Bibbs, a 60-year-old church deacon and retired school principal, pulled out his Taurus 9mm and squeezed off a single round.
'He acted emotionally'
"I understand that he was desperate," said Maj. Wenda Phifer of the Fulton County Police. "He probably thought that he would never see her again, and he acted emotionally."
Now, the driver, identified as Rodricus Martin, 31, is in Atlanta's Grady Memorial hospital, recovering from a bullet wound in his leg and facing a raft of charges including kidnapping, child abuse and statutory rape, authorities said.
And Bibbs, who scoured the dangerous streets of Fulton County's industrial section looking for his kidnapped granddaughter, is charged with aggravated assault, authorities said.
Bibbs, free on bail, could not be reached today for comment. A woman identified herself as his wife declined to comment on the investigation or the events that led to the Thursday morning shooting.
But authorities said the deacon's sojourn into suburban Atlanta's hooker-infested underworld began more than 10 days ago, with a simple family squabble.
Prostitutes and pimps
Bibbs, the family patriarch, had an argument with his 13-year-old granddaughter, Phifer said, and the teenager angrily stalked out of the house.
When she didn't return within a few hours, the family began to worry and, that night, they called police and reported her missing.
Authorities had no leads on the girl's whereabouts. But Bibbs found a clue.
A few days after her disappearance, the girl had placed a brief phone call to the family. Authorities did not disclose the details of the conversation. She did not say where she was. But Bibbs used his caller ID to trace the number, and found that it was the house phone at a motel in South Fulton.
The deacon knew a little bit about the neighborhood. It is, Phifer said, a neighborhood prowled by prostitutes and their pimps, a place with a bad reputation.
Authorities believe Bibbs was thinking about his safety -- and his granddaughter's -- when he decided to take along a little protection, his 9mm handgun, Phifer said.
'One of them was a bad guy'
Late Wednesday, the deacon drove from his home in Southwest Atlanta to the motel, authorities said. He showed the night clerk a picture of his granddaughter.
"The clerk recognized her," Phifer said, "and also described the men she was with." The clerk even described the cars the three men used.
"One of them was a bad guy, and he was armed," the clerk reportedly told Bibbs.
Bibbs called the Fulton County Police, who arrived at the motel, waited for a while, and left when they couldn't find the girl or her abductors, Phifer said.
But Bibbs wasn't about to give up. He stayed behind, she said.
His diligence paid off.
An escape attempt
About 45 minutes after police left, somebody inside the motel pulled a fire alarm and the place was evacuated. Maybe it was a prank, Phifer said. Maybe it was an attempt by the kidnappers, who had slipped back inside undetected, to create a diversion and escape, she said.
But it didn't work.
Bibbs saw one of the men who had been described to him slip into the driver seat of a Volkswagen Fox, Phifer said. The deacon followed the man in his car, and when the car stopped at a traffic light on the industrial I-20 bypass, Bibbs got out of his car and approached it.
"He could see his granddaughter in the car," Phifer said, "and he told her to get out."
She tried to escape, Phifer said. But Martin who was alone in the car with her, allegedly held her down.
Then, authorities said, Martin reached for something.
A shot and then a chase
It turned out be a cell phone, Phifer said. But, with the clerk's warning still fresh in his mind, Bibbs believed that Martin was reaching for a gun, Phifer said. He fired one round, striking Martin in the leg.
"He didn't know that he had hit him," Phifer said, and it's not even clear whether Martin knew that he had been shot.
Martin sped off, with Bibbs hot on his heels.
Finally, the deacon managed to force Martin's car off the road. He pulled his granddaughter out of the damaged Volkswagen, and then realized that Martin was wounded.
"He called the city of Atlanta police," Phifer said.
Search for accomplices
The granddaughter, whose name is being withheld because of her age, has been placed in the care of her mother, Phifer said.
But authorities have questioned her and said she gave a harrowing account of her ordeal.
The girl told police that she had been manhandled and sexually assaulted by Martin and his two as-yet unidentified accomplices.
Police are still searching for the two men who got away, and also are trying to determine whether the men were part of the neighborhood's thriving prostitution industry, Phifer said.
"That's something we're looking into," the major said.
'Cares about his family'
In the meantime, friends and former co-workers are rallying around Bibbs, saying that whatever he did, he did it to save his granddaughter.
"I know this man quite well," said Sherman Lofton, principal at the Harper-Archer High School in Atlanta and a longtime colleague of Bibbs. "I never heard him say a violent word, but he cares about people. And he especially cares about his family."
"I know this," Lofton said, "if it had been my granddaughter, I wouldn't just have sat around either."
It sounds like (at least in this article) even the media is supporting the grandfather by continuely referring to him as the "deacon" rather than the deranged gunnman.
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Gunslinger
Charged With Assault in Daring Rescue
June 23, 2000
By Seamus McGraw
FULTON COUNTY, Ga. (APBnews.com) -- It was all one big blur, authorities said. His 13-year-old granddaughter was struggling to get out of the car, to escape from one of the men who had held her for days in a cheap motel room outside of Atlanta and sexually abused her.
The police were nowhere to be seen. And the driver wouldn't let her go, authorities said. He pinned the struggling girl inside the car and reached between the front seats for something, maybe a gun.
That's when Wallace Bibbs, a 60-year-old church deacon and retired school principal, pulled out his Taurus 9mm and squeezed off a single round.
'He acted emotionally'
"I understand that he was desperate," said Maj. Wenda Phifer of the Fulton County Police. "He probably thought that he would never see her again, and he acted emotionally."
Now, the driver, identified as Rodricus Martin, 31, is in Atlanta's Grady Memorial hospital, recovering from a bullet wound in his leg and facing a raft of charges including kidnapping, child abuse and statutory rape, authorities said.
And Bibbs, who scoured the dangerous streets of Fulton County's industrial section looking for his kidnapped granddaughter, is charged with aggravated assault, authorities said.
Bibbs, free on bail, could not be reached today for comment. A woman identified herself as his wife declined to comment on the investigation or the events that led to the Thursday morning shooting.
But authorities said the deacon's sojourn into suburban Atlanta's hooker-infested underworld began more than 10 days ago, with a simple family squabble.
Prostitutes and pimps
Bibbs, the family patriarch, had an argument with his 13-year-old granddaughter, Phifer said, and the teenager angrily stalked out of the house.
When she didn't return within a few hours, the family began to worry and, that night, they called police and reported her missing.
Authorities had no leads on the girl's whereabouts. But Bibbs found a clue.
A few days after her disappearance, the girl had placed a brief phone call to the family. Authorities did not disclose the details of the conversation. She did not say where she was. But Bibbs used his caller ID to trace the number, and found that it was the house phone at a motel in South Fulton.
The deacon knew a little bit about the neighborhood. It is, Phifer said, a neighborhood prowled by prostitutes and their pimps, a place with a bad reputation.
Authorities believe Bibbs was thinking about his safety -- and his granddaughter's -- when he decided to take along a little protection, his 9mm handgun, Phifer said.
'One of them was a bad guy'
Late Wednesday, the deacon drove from his home in Southwest Atlanta to the motel, authorities said. He showed the night clerk a picture of his granddaughter.
"The clerk recognized her," Phifer said, "and also described the men she was with." The clerk even described the cars the three men used.
"One of them was a bad guy, and he was armed," the clerk reportedly told Bibbs.
Bibbs called the Fulton County Police, who arrived at the motel, waited for a while, and left when they couldn't find the girl or her abductors, Phifer said.
But Bibbs wasn't about to give up. He stayed behind, she said.
His diligence paid off.
An escape attempt
About 45 minutes after police left, somebody inside the motel pulled a fire alarm and the place was evacuated. Maybe it was a prank, Phifer said. Maybe it was an attempt by the kidnappers, who had slipped back inside undetected, to create a diversion and escape, she said.
But it didn't work.
Bibbs saw one of the men who had been described to him slip into the driver seat of a Volkswagen Fox, Phifer said. The deacon followed the man in his car, and when the car stopped at a traffic light on the industrial I-20 bypass, Bibbs got out of his car and approached it.
"He could see his granddaughter in the car," Phifer said, "and he told her to get out."
She tried to escape, Phifer said. But Martin who was alone in the car with her, allegedly held her down.
Then, authorities said, Martin reached for something.
A shot and then a chase
It turned out be a cell phone, Phifer said. But, with the clerk's warning still fresh in his mind, Bibbs believed that Martin was reaching for a gun, Phifer said. He fired one round, striking Martin in the leg.
"He didn't know that he had hit him," Phifer said, and it's not even clear whether Martin knew that he had been shot.
Martin sped off, with Bibbs hot on his heels.
Finally, the deacon managed to force Martin's car off the road. He pulled his granddaughter out of the damaged Volkswagen, and then realized that Martin was wounded.
"He called the city of Atlanta police," Phifer said.
Search for accomplices
The granddaughter, whose name is being withheld because of her age, has been placed in the care of her mother, Phifer said.
But authorities have questioned her and said she gave a harrowing account of her ordeal.
The girl told police that she had been manhandled and sexually assaulted by Martin and his two as-yet unidentified accomplices.
Police are still searching for the two men who got away, and also are trying to determine whether the men were part of the neighborhood's thriving prostitution industry, Phifer said.
"That's something we're looking into," the major said.
'Cares about his family'
In the meantime, friends and former co-workers are rallying around Bibbs, saying that whatever he did, he did it to save his granddaughter.
"I know this man quite well," said Sherman Lofton, principal at the Harper-Archer High School in Atlanta and a longtime colleague of Bibbs. "I never heard him say a violent word, but he cares about people. And he especially cares about his family."
"I know this," Lofton said, "if it had been my granddaughter, I wouldn't just have sat around either."
It sounds like (at least in this article) even the media is supporting the grandfather by continuely referring to him as the "deacon" rather than the deranged gunnman.
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Gunslinger
Emotionally my little white @ss. He had reason to believe the guy had a gun. The guy made a move that would be considered threatening. I am not a violent person. Most of you here know this. But to be honest I would have shot tille the SoB stoped moving. Sexually assaulting a 13 year old girl. Death would be to good for scum like this. Give me a live electrical cord and 30 minutes. This thing( I will not call it a man) would find out what it means to feel pain.
Mr. Bibbs Acted with considerable restraint. More than I would have shown I hate to say. And now they are charging him with a crime. Excuse me while I get sick.
Mr. Bibbs Acted with considerable restraint. More than I would have shown I hate to say. And now they are charging him with a crime. Excuse me while I get sick.
Ya gotta be kidding. He should have called the cops earlier, for tactical reasons--it would have kept them both safer than taking on several armed men alone.
But that's not a moral consideration in the least, just a disagreement with his tactics. You don't arrest people for bad tactics. He'll be acquitted if it even goes to trial. Doesn't Georgia, like everyplace else, have exceptions to their assault statutes for people who commit assault upon someone who is committing a felony--as the kidnapper was? It'll come to nothing in the end.
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Look for info on the All-TFL get-together in Lock and Load! Shiner Bock, barbecue, and full-auto in Missouri!
But that's not a moral consideration in the least, just a disagreement with his tactics. You don't arrest people for bad tactics. He'll be acquitted if it even goes to trial. Doesn't Georgia, like everyplace else, have exceptions to their assault statutes for people who commit assault upon someone who is committing a felony--as the kidnapper was? It'll come to nothing in the end.
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Look for info on the All-TFL get-together in Lock and Load! Shiner Bock, barbecue, and full-auto in Missouri!
Munro Williams
New member
Another example of the reasons why the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Who in their right mind would want to see this man in jail?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Who in their right mind would want to see this man in jail?[/quote]
In jail? Who would want to see him charged? He should be getting a medal instead of a court date.
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -- Louis D. Brandeis
In jail? Who would want to see him charged? He should be getting a medal instead of a court date.
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Eric of IN
New member
The D.A. should be brought up on obstruction of justice charges. The grandpa should get a medal.
Eric
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Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Eric
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Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Jeff Thomas
New member
Gee, we're going to question Bibbs' tactics, and offer that he should have called the LEO's ... again? C'mon.
He tried to get the LEO's to help. They tried, but did not succeed. He sees one BG leaving with his granddaughter. Is anyone seriously going to suggest he should have called 911 and waited for a response? What for? To provide a handy description of the car? For all we know, she was being taken to a secondary crime scene, where she might have been murdered and then buried in a shallow grave. We all know that that was a distinct possibility. 'Course, finding a dead body in a burned out car in the Georgia backwoods wouldn't be as interesting a story ...
And, I agree with Kevinw ... Maj. Wenda Phifer is a fool. The man reacted with logic, and with the force required, assuming the facts are as represented. Wouldn't it be interesting to ask Maj. Phifer what one of her LEO's should have done in such a situation? I'll bet they would have fired as well. If not, then I'm glad I don't live in her fair county.
IMHO, it is a symptom of a sick society when a man rescues a young girl under such circumstances, and we (1) charge him with a crime, and (2) we nitpick the fellow's 'tactics'. Disgusting. That girl is lucky her grandpa is the man he is.
LEO's help us everyday, and I appreciate the he** out of their service. However, when any LEO tells us that we're not allowed to take action like this, when necessary, well ... that's when my respect drops a notch. We all know that an LEO would have done the same da** thing to save his / her granddaughter. Civilians aren't second class citizens because we don't wear a badge. The 'Maj. Phifers' of this world damage LEO / civilian relations, IMHO.
Regards from AZ
He tried to get the LEO's to help. They tried, but did not succeed. He sees one BG leaving with his granddaughter. Is anyone seriously going to suggest he should have called 911 and waited for a response? What for? To provide a handy description of the car? For all we know, she was being taken to a secondary crime scene, where she might have been murdered and then buried in a shallow grave. We all know that that was a distinct possibility. 'Course, finding a dead body in a burned out car in the Georgia backwoods wouldn't be as interesting a story ...
And, I agree with Kevinw ... Maj. Wenda Phifer is a fool. The man reacted with logic, and with the force required, assuming the facts are as represented. Wouldn't it be interesting to ask Maj. Phifer what one of her LEO's should have done in such a situation? I'll bet they would have fired as well. If not, then I'm glad I don't live in her fair county.
IMHO, it is a symptom of a sick society when a man rescues a young girl under such circumstances, and we (1) charge him with a crime, and (2) we nitpick the fellow's 'tactics'. Disgusting. That girl is lucky her grandpa is the man he is.
LEO's help us everyday, and I appreciate the he** out of their service. However, when any LEO tells us that we're not allowed to take action like this, when necessary, well ... that's when my respect drops a notch. We all know that an LEO would have done the same da** thing to save his / her granddaughter. Civilians aren't second class citizens because we don't wear a badge. The 'Maj. Phifers' of this world damage LEO / civilian relations, IMHO.
Regards from AZ
http://www.mindspring.com/~fcpd/ is the website of the Fulton County Police Department. It has phone numbers.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I haven't checked it out yet, but the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is online and takes email letters to the editors.
I THINK the URL is http://www.ajc.com but you can check it out...
, Art
I THINK the URL is http://www.ajc.com but you can check it out...
, Art
J
Jeff, CA
Guest
He did right. If a cop had done the same thing, he would have been praised for his bravery, determination and investigative skill.
So let me see if i have this right.
Granddaughter is kidnapped. Police are unable to do anything to help the situation.
Meanwhile, granddaughter is being rapped by kidnappers.
So Bibbs (Church Deacon and Retired School Principal) finds his granddaughter and the kidnappers and has to shoot the kiddnapper to protect the life of his granddaughter.
Now he is being charged with assault?
...
Would it be ok with you guys if I refuesed to play this game, i don't feel so good.
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
Granddaughter is kidnapped. Police are unable to do anything to help the situation.
Meanwhile, granddaughter is being rapped by kidnappers.
So Bibbs (Church Deacon and Retired School Principal) finds his granddaughter and the kidnappers and has to shoot the kiddnapper to protect the life of his granddaughter.
Now he is being charged with assault?
...
Would it be ok with you guys if I refuesed to play this game, i don't feel so good.
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
This seems like a clear-cut clean shooting to me. He filed a report, he called the police, the police did nothing, he sees his kidnapped granddaughter (how many kidnappings result in the death of the victime?) attempting to escape from the man who has been raping her for several days. This is a man whom Mr. Bibbs has reason to believe is armed, and whom he should suspect of being armed in any event, and who makes furtive movements when confronted. Bibbs shoots him. Bibbs is arrested. This is obscene. To those who suggest that he should have called the police again, I would point out that kidnapping victims tend not to live very long, that it is legal to shoot to stop rape, and that the BGs weren't likely to stick around for the cops to come again. It's appalling that this is even an issue. The cops on the scene should have taken his statement, given him back his pistol, and told him when to appear in court to testify against the miscreant he mercifully allowed to live.
If he had killed him, I bet the DA would have given the deacon a medal. Since the "perp" has survived, I am sure the DA's office is going through the motions so they do not get hit with some sort of "he shot me for no reason" lawsuit. It will come to pass that the charges are dropped. Too bad he will have to pay money for a lawyer.
The guy is a hero, the DA is a goat, no question.
Evaluating the Deacon's tactics isn't something I object to; I once saved somebody's life in a situation almost as hairy and while it worked out OK, I didn't use perfect tactics either. Evaluating things after the fact is how we learn.
That has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with my feelings for gent as an upright human being. I'd consider it an honor just to shake his hand.
Jim
Evaluating the Deacon's tactics isn't something I object to; I once saved somebody's life in a situation almost as hairy and while it worked out OK, I didn't use perfect tactics either. Evaluating things after the fact is how we learn.
That has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with my feelings for gent as an upright human being. I'd consider it an honor just to shake his hand.
Jim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hube1236:
If he had killed him, I bet the DA would have given the deacon a medal. Since the "perp" has survived, I am sure the DA's office is going through the motions so they do not get hit with some sort of "he shot me for no reason" lawsuit. It will come to pass that the charges are dropped. Too bad he will have to pay money for a lawyer.[/quote]
So to protect me from a civil lawsuit, you want to arrest and charge me with a violent felony??? Effectively eliminating my ability to continue to own any gun.
Please tell me you didn't think this one through.
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
If he had killed him, I bet the DA would have given the deacon a medal. Since the "perp" has survived, I am sure the DA's office is going through the motions so they do not get hit with some sort of "he shot me for no reason" lawsuit. It will come to pass that the charges are dropped. Too bad he will have to pay money for a lawyer.[/quote]
So to protect me from a civil lawsuit, you want to arrest and charge me with a violent felony??? Effectively eliminating my ability to continue to own any gun.
Please tell me you didn't think this one through.
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
Jason Demond
New member
To bad he only hit the guy in the leg and not the ahh offender if you know what I mean!
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ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY!"
General Dwight D. Eisenhower-- June 6,1944
------------------------ http://www.homestead.com/gunrights/Guns_and_Gunrights.html
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ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY!"
General Dwight D. Eisenhower-- June 6,1944
------------------------ http://www.homestead.com/gunrights/Guns_and_Gunrights.html