Right hand shooting fault... down & right? Newish shooter...

redraif

New member
So I'm still new to shooting... in so far as rounds downrange. (Would guess under 500 lifetime) I was introduced to shooting when i was a young teen by my father. He was military trained. He taught me correct firearms handling and respect.

I guess cause i was a girl he never pushed the issue of shooting or get me my own firearm. I actually loved to shoot. I took over the family bb gun (rifle) and always looked for an excuse to rail on some trees. We even made up a target range of sort in the basement with stacked phone books against a cyinder block wall for the winter months.

As a teen once, he taught me to use the pocket 22 at the barn i rode at. That consisted of shooting a can at about 7 yards or so. Only missed 3. I shot about 25 or so. Then we shot again when i was 16 at a range. This consisted of shooting a few mgazines thru his ruger 22 target pistol. Shooting a few rounds on his long barreled 357 magnum. Yes i shot 357 not 38. Dad rented me a Beretta 92. Then i was handed my boy friends glock. This was when they were still new to the market. I spilt a box of 50 rounds with the guys to run thru the glock and the 92. Dad was all excited about the glock. In the moment, He asked about buying me my own gun. (Think he wanted an excuse to buy a glock) He was trying so hard to talk me into a glock... I said I wanted the Beretta... lol... that was the end of the buying me a gun discussion. Then the next and last time shooting was at college one weekend. We rented a Beretta 92, a Ruger and a Smith and Wesson. He and i ran a box of 50 thru the trio. I shot best with the 92. He said I had a natural talent and had good groupings for a new shooter. The end of shooting with dad...

I did not get my first firearm till i was in my late 30s in 2013. You guessed it... my own Beretta. Anyway... bullet shortages led to very little range time with conservative round counts. I would say 4 visits with a shared box of 50 rounds per outing. Yipes! In the back of my mind I thought about a bore laser trainer, but the spouse was not biting. In all honesty, I had not realized how important dry fire practice was for the shooter.

If it matters... my real guns are 40 caliber and my carry gun is an LCP for its concealability.

So what brings me to my post... i discovered a fault/pattern in my shooting. Im a right handed shooter. I'm shooting low and right... 4 or 5 o'clock? I started to research said fault. From what i have read i might be tightening my grip as my trigger finger curls... my lack of time with a pistol equals a lack of pointer finger isolation from my other digits.... Said lack of isolation means the hand and tendons act as a unit. Seen alot in people who use hands alot with tasks. I'm very physical and hands on for a girl. Rode horses for 30 years, where hand is unified. I was trained pinky isolation, but everything else was a unit. Now I work on my own cars where again the hands are a unit... So As the trigger finger tightens, so do all the digits. Does that sound right?! Could that be it?

I simulated a grip and tried to only curl that pointer finger. Nope the whole hand moves... esp my thumb. I held my carry gun and simulated a trigger pull under the guard. As soon as I curl my trigger finger the nose goes right and down on a perfect angle... ugh... I'm sure it gets worse once you add recoil and anticipation to the mix... does anything else creep in when you see the 4-5 o'clock pattern? Is it a wrist thing? In riding wrist position is important, but you don't lock the wrist. Maybe that muscle memory is contributing? Could it be a grip size issue? How do you know what is the correct grip size? Is there a way to tell with wraping fingers and thumb around said grip?

I assume dry fire practice would be my best training for this issue? Any drills you can suggest for this issue? What would be the best training aid. A bore laser type aid (lights when firing pin hits snap cap the laser lights) or just snap caps and a balanced quarter? Getting out a fake gun and working my pointer finger isolated over and over till I see zero movement from my other digits and my front sight holds dead on? I want to break this weakness quick before it becomes a habit.

Thanks you guys!
 
From your description, it appears you are a one handed shooter??
But either one or two handed, your problem as described does seem accurate, needing to isolate the trigger finger.
But without releasing the grip.
Establish the grip and keep it solid, except for the flexible trigger finger.
Trigger time is required.
If range time and ammo is limited, the trigger time can be accomplished with dry fire, while watching the sights, or better - with airguns.
They make actual holes in actual targets.
Even a hand exerciser tool works.
 
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May I suggest locking your wrist or wrists downward at a 45 degree angle, so you won't dip so much when you break the shot. Treat your trigger finger as it's own entity.

If you don't use a bullseye stance...use an isosceles stance, as if you were shooting with 2 handed support of the pistol. Your left wrist should be locked in a fist, up against your chest, as if your ready to punch someone.

Besides two hand support for pistols during practice....use occasional one hand support of the pistol during practice. A bullseye stance is not bad either.
 
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Do you have smaller hands? The Beretta is a fullsized gun with a decent length of pull. What sized gloves do you wear? It is hard to tell you what is wrong without seeing you shoot. Do you have a friend who is a more experienced shooter who can watch you or even take quick video of you shooting. Often and experienced shooter can correct a newer shooter.

The other option is to look for professional training. It can be cheaper than you think and can go a long way to setting you onto the right path and correcting errors before they become habits. With that said I will try to give it a "shot" without ever having seen you shoot. So take my critique with a grain of salt.

I think you are on the right track that you are flexing your wrist and your trigger finger is pulling the pistol to the right. That is what is causing you to move to 3 o'clock.

The downward movement 4 to 5 o'clock is from looking over your sights to see where the bullet it. Many new shooters do this. Many old shooters do too. :eek: By doing this you are taking the pistol off target before you should. Focus only on the front sight. Watch it track it see the front "lift out" of the rear and return. Do not focus on the target. Think in your mind" front sight. front sight" and focus there. This will help you keep the pistol on target and not look over your sights. This is good for shooting tight groups.

These 2-3 issues are cause you to go right and a bit low. Again this is a best guess having not seen you shoot. Here is a good video it is older 2006 but it is still spot on IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Another good one on grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ
 
Another thing to consider...

The grip may be a bit large for your hand, or the trigger too far away. I've seen people try to reach a trigger by wrapping their hand counterclockwise, and when the trigger gets pulled the groups are low right as their hand 'unwinds' on the grip.
 
The Beretta is a 90-two in 40 caliber.... essentially a 96... full size. I also have a PX4 compact also 40 caliber. I was shooting my sig 2022sp and lcp when i noticed the fault in my pattern.

I will take some pictures of my right hand on my grips... Maybe that will help if you can see where my fingers wrap and reach.

As for glove size.... in mechanics gloves i typically wear medium mens, but the fingers are sloppy wideish... length is good... I tried small but split the seams with decent use... fingers come thru tips. Women gloves typically the finger width is too tight, as well as palm width...

I'm 5 foot 7. Xtra large in boys shirts... small in men's unless athletic cut... then medium. So I guess on the taller side for a woman, but not amazon sized...

My stance is weaver stance. Self developed i assume because of my time first learning with the bb gun rifle. That and a bit of martial arts i did. I draw security in having forward and rear foot balance

I just read about focusing solely on the front sight. Looking over could explain my shooting low. This is my goal to retrain myself on asap. Frt sight frt sight frt sight! That is one area dad never really mentioned. Heck I just realized I had been sighting wrong all this time. I thought you placed the bullseye "on" your front sight... (pumpkin on a post someone called it) now I learn the front sight is meant to cover your bullseye. So I spent time focusing on that this last trip. So that is not why I was shooting low. But my disecting of my pattern is when I noticed my down and right issue.

I will have my spouse video me next time... also Mom is in need of some training... I will plan to join her for some classes. I want to break any bad habits now!
 
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You might have a better feel for that trigger if you cut-off your trigger finger glove digit up to the first distal joint --- Or use a very thin glove over your trigger finger hand.

I much prefer the Isosceles Stance over the Weaver --- because it is said --- a person will always resort to an Isosceles Stance in a standing gunfight; whether or not that person has trained with that kind of stance.
 
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The spouse set me these from the last outing
 
This chart may be of some help, but my experience both with my own shooting and with students, tells me that it's wrong about as often as it's right. It's also intended to apply primarily to shooting one-handed, and I wouldn't expect that simply tightening your two-handed grip ("milking the grip" as it's called) would have much effect when shooting two-handed.

What will cause shots to move down and to the right, one- or two-handed, is jerking the trigger (flinching) as a result of anticipating recoil. It's one of those things that you can be doing without ever realizing it. You can spend some time dry-firing to investigate that, but if you know there's no recoil coming you may well not actuate the trigger the same way. The best way to check it out is called the "ball and dummy" drill. Have someone else load the gun - sometimes with a live round, sometimes with a dummy or empty chamber - and hand it to you so you don't know which, then fire as usual. If you're flinching you'll find out pretty quickly when you "fire" the first dummy round.
 
Good idea... i will try that. I actually have a bunch of beretta magazines. I could even load them in advance. Each in a different pattern and then randomly draw one to shoot .... :)
 
Next time...you'll need to remember to have the muzzle of that pistol, including the muzzle end of the pistol case --- that is lying on the table --- pointed downrange please.
 
Lol... i did not even notice... my poor mother finished that magazine right before i stepped up there. Range foul
 
Now I learn the front sight is meant to cover your bullseye

Well, yes and no.

Some gun sights have a point of impact set up for 'point of aim', or covering the bull as you call it. Some have a six o'clock hold where the bull is hovering right on top of the sight.

Best way to tell where your particular gun hits is shoot it off a rest. It's not unheard of for a pistol's sights to be slightly off, shooting left or right.
 
Are their certain manufactures known to set up this way, or is it hit or miss?

What is the best rest to use to set up a pistol? What about a bore sight tool? Are they reliable enough to assist with verifiying proper sight alignment?
 
Right hand shooting fault... down & right? Newish shooter...

From your description, your grip is not correct, and the finger draw is not placed correctly. Use the trigger-finger connection up to the first finger joint...and "squeeze" without "pulling" the trigger. Check your grip hold without Tea-cupping...Watch "Firearm Science" on YouTube for correct trigger and grip techniques.
 
Been thinking on the tea cupping... not doing that...

Prior to my shooting this last time... I was reading somewhere that the main hand pushes forward and the secondary pulls backish... like hands are pressing into one another... can't do that tea cupping or you will push the main hand right off the bottom cupping hand. So 99% sure I'm not tea cupping... so one good thing.

I had been looking at Enos' grip prior to my outing... seems it's like the one Shannon does in the video. I will definitely try to adopt that. Heck I'm new enough to not really have a style yet.

Now to get a dry fire routine with a laser to build that independant control in my trigger finger. But don't look at laser versus front sight!!! Might have my spouse be the one to tell me if I hit the mark. :)
 
Here's a way that may help. Buy a few dummy 9mm rounds. Have SOMEONE ELSE load your magazines with live ammo and mix a dummy in there every so often. Pay attention to what you do when the hammer falls on the dummy round. I would guess you are anticipating recoil and pushing down before the gun actually goes off. If that's the case, there will be a noticeable drop on the muzzle end of the gun that even a non shooter will see. If the gun moves at all during the "click", that's the problem, and the cause of the shots being pulled low.

And your focus should be "front sight, front sight, front sight, SQUEEZE", and let the gun do it's job. Lock the shoulders, elbows and wrists in place as you are doing that and the gun should come back to where it needs to be after the recoil impulse.
 
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