Rifles

[lefteye]

The AR DOES NOT DESIGNATE ASSAULT RIFLE.

Correct. And I did not say AR designated an assault rifle. It stands for ArmaLite. Yes, Wikipedia also states that Hitler used the term assault rifle. The Army intelligence document stating the U S Army designated the M-16 as an assault rifle is not "the media" or the "uninformed."

The "media" does refer to many weapons as "assault rifles", but that fact does not make the "media" the source of the term "assault rifle."

I am not the "media", nor am I "uninformed."

 

[rickyrick]

Weapon was the preferred term while in the army.

Like it or not, assault rifle is a real term.

So is assault weapon, the term is so real it was and is used in laws around the nation.

For military purposes, M16/M4s are individual weapons. We called them guns, even though basic training told us otherwise. We also hid around behind dumpsters, in dark alleys and other secretive locations and crammed our hands into our pockets when NCOs weren't looking... until I became an NCO

 

[Skans]

Here's why the Military should still choose the AR:

1. Incredibly easy to support - parts are available and can be manufactured by just about anyone without having to pay a company for their proprietary design

2. They are incredibly accurate, reliable and durable

3. They are relatively inexpensive to make

4. They are easy to configure to suit just about any purpose

5. You can have an AR in many different calibers, even pistol calibers - although the military rarely, if ever, chooses to take advantage of this.

6. Easy to assemble and disassemble and clean.

7. They are light weight and easy to carry.

8. I actually like DI over pistons - less mass to move, so less gas to bleed off; more compact design; easier to suppress (in theory), and weigh less.

9. AR'/M4's can be used with belt-feed devices, large capacity magazines - you can even get compact drums that hold 50-60 rounds or bulkier drums that hold 100-120 rounds.

I don't know of one other type of rifle/carbine that is nearly as versatile as the AR/M16/M4

The term doesn't bother me, assault rifle, assault weapon etc.
what bothers me is gun owners scrambling to be please the antis.

I call all of my black rifles "Assault Rifles". Sometimes, I'll even call them High-Powered, Rapid-Fire Flesh-Shredders", if it makes the antis squirm.

 

[Theohazard]

Wikipedia disagrees, and cites a 1970 US Army intelligence document stating the M-16 was an assault rifle. (I was in US Army Intelligence in Vietnam in 1970 and occasionally carried an M-16, but I didn't write the referenced document.)

Thats funny because they also attribute the term to Hitler which is the general consciences.

Texas45, I'm not sure what your point here is. Yes, the Germans (possibly Hitler himself) coined the term "assault rifle" during WWII. Since then it has become a technical term for a select-fire rifle that fires an intermediate-powered rifle cartridge. That's why the US Army used the term in that 1970 field manual.

The AR DOES NOT DESIGNATE ASSAULT RIFLE.

Nobody here in this thread has said that it does, so I have no idea why you felt the need to repeat this, and in caps no less.

Texas45, your first post was full of bad information. Actually, the military does use assault rifles. And no, "assault rifle" is not a term made up by the media. And no, "AR" doesn't stand for "ArmaLite rifle". I'm really not sure what the point of your most recent post is. In your first post you were obviously confusing the valid term "assault rifle" with the made-up political term "assault weapon". Hopefully, next time someone uses the term "assault rifle" correctly -- as the OP did -- you won't jump in and "correct" him with bad information.

 

[rickyrick]

8. I actually like DI over pistons -

It's always better to have less moving parts.

Soldiers on active duty will always complain about equipment, their heads are full of the military versions of urban legend, sometimes repeated in perpetuity by short timers. After 15 years, I heard most of them multiple times, told by each teller as if they were the original participant. I hated the gun, because I had heard it sucked. Experience taught me otherwise.

 

[lefteye]

Armalite's current website shows the company identifies many models with the designation AR- . These include, for example, firearms identified as .308 pistols, .260 precision rifles, .308 tactical rifles, and .300 Win Mag bolt action rifles. I suspect no firearms folks would describe these as "assault rifles."

 

[44 AMP]

Yes, the Germans (possibly Hitler himself) coined the term "assault rifle" during WWII.

Several different sources say it was Hitler, himself that named the rifle "Sturmgewehr".

in a nutshell, the story is this...

In late 40 or early 41, when Nazi Germany was winning, Hitler ordered that no effort be "wasted" developing new rifles. Development of future submachine guns (Maschinen Pistole - machine pistols) could continue.

Some engineers in the German firearms industry had been working on a new "light rifle" round and rifle for it. They continued developing it, disguising their work by calling the gun an MP not a rifle.

Small numbers were field tested on the eastern front in 43, and more in early 44 (MP 43 and MP 44). At a conference, Hitler asked some officers what they needed more of, and was told, "more of the new rifles!"

WHAT NEW RIFLES???!!!

Finding out his earlier orders had been disobeyed, Hitler was furious. After a couple days, he had calmed down enough, and some of the new rifles were demonstrated for him. Seeing what they could do, Hitler changed his mind 180 degrees and said, "this is what I want! this is my STURMGEWEHR!

The designation for the MP 44 was changed to Stg 44 (from Maschinen Pistole to Sturmgewehr -from Submachine gun to Assault Rifle), and the term Assault RIFLE has been in use ever since.

One major point where people get confused is that the political term "assault weapon" (which are ALL semi autos) includes certain rifles, so the underinformed think that since it is an assault weapon, and its a rifle, then it is an assault rifle. Which makes sense in English class, but is WRONG in engineering class.

 

[45_auto]

It's always better to have less moving parts.

You really believe that a Brown Bess or 1876 Springfield is better than an M16?

 

[Skans]

political term "assault weapon" (which are ALL semi autos)

I refuse to let the Antis own the term: Assault Rifle or Assault Weapon. So I embrace the term and use it freely to describe everything from my Colt Mustang .380 to my Savage LA 30-06 to my AC556. Everyone has their own way of thumbing their nose at the Antis and P.C. crowd. This is just my way.

None of us seem to have any problem calling a Glock 17 a "Gun", do we? Well, if you call it a gun, or a 1911 a gun, or even a S&W Model 10 a gun, you would be wrong according to the historical use of that term (from the online Etymology Dictionary):

gun (n.) Look up gun at Dictionary.com
mid-14c., gunne "an engine of war that throws rocks, arrows or other missiles from a tube by the force of explosive powder or other substance," apparently a shortening of woman's name Gunilda, found in Middle English gonnilde "cannon" and in an Anglo-Latin reference to a specific gun from a 1330 munitions inventory of Windsor Castle ("... una magna balista de cornu quae Domina Gunilda ..."). Also compare gonnilde gnoste "spark or flame used to fire a cannon" (early 14c.). The woman's name is from Old Norse Gunnhildr, a compound of gunnr and hildr, both meaning "war, battle." First element from PIE *gwhen- "to strike, kill" (see bane); for second, see Hilda. The identification of women with powerful weapons is common historically (such as Big Bertha, Brown Bess, Mons Meg, etc.). Or perhaps directly from Old Norse gunnr "battle." The word was perhaps influenced by or confirmed by (or possibly from) Old French engon, dialectal variant of engin "engine."

Meaning grew with technology, from cannons to firearms as they developed 15c.; popularly applied to pistols and revolvers from 1744. In modern military use the word is restricted to cannons (which must be mounted), especially long ones used for high velocity and long trajectory. Hence great guns (1884 as an exclamation) distinguished from small guns (such as muskets) from c. 1400. Meaning "thief, rascal" is from 1858. For son of a gun, see son. To jump the gun (1912, American English) is a figurative use from track and field. Guns "a woman's breasts" (especially if prominent) attested by 2006.

 

[rickyrick]

You really believe that a Brown Bess or 1876 Springfield is better than an M16?

Nope, I do believe if you add a piston to any of those, you're increasing the likelihood of a malfunction within their own kind of weapon.

things are redesigned all of the time, but the m16 has relatively few moving parts and the bolt carrier was never meant to be pushed with the gas key.