Rifles with pistol calibers. Why?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I suppose the title says it all.

So why do they make them?
Is it to spread the use of handgun calibres?
Do they have a particular characteristic/use?
Are they normally semi, bolt or lever-action?
Are they short range, medium or long?

Personally, I quite like th idea: it broadens the horizons of calibres I might buy, but then I wonder if it wastes the potential of a rifle: they can handle far more powerful loads than pistols, to greater ranges so why then load it with the likes of .357s and .44s?

Actually, I'd quite like a .44 Mag rifle: I'm about to start reloading for .44s and it is a meaty round!
 
When I first picked up a Marlin`94 in 45Colt, I marveled at how light in the hands it was, and how it
handled/pointed like a weightless extension of my body when I threw it up to my shoulder. When
I chrono'd handloads that threw a 255Keith at 1,700fps and a 340gr-GasCheckedFlatNose
at 1,400fps... I knew I was looking at something different than what I expected.

So now I also have a `92Winchester in 357 that tosses a 185gr FNGC at just shy of 1,600fps. Where the Marlin is pure eat-anything functional, the Winchester is slightly pickier but still simply a class act that eats far more than I expected. ** ... and very flat.

Both rifles group an easy minute-of-cokecan with cast lead and an aperture sight (Willliams on the Marlin, Marble on the Winchster). Both are "truck gun" go-any-where/do-anything rifles within 150 yards.


**
103wvah.jpg


Cool
 
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And if they are both autos, same mags. Glock 35 with a .357 SIG barrel using G31 mags. Match that up with a custom AR-15. Lone Wolf lower that takes the same Glock mags. Custom upper put together by Ron Williams. DI with a short 9" barrel. SBR. Slap in one of the shorter 15 shop G31 mags or use one of the longer 22 shot ones.

It's a nice little combo that can handle a lot of things. The rifle could certainly take our local deer out to 150 yards or so. Which is as far as I ever shoot them. It is amazingly accurate, has almost zero recoil since it is DI, and can put multiple hits on target very fast. Just about anybody could use it in a "serious social situation" very easily and successfully.

Try running a pistol course with something like a 9" SBR and see how easy and fast it really is. You can fly through double tapping everything. But in a compact package with zero recoil. And with an AR, you can pop the pins to separate it into two pieces and then put it in a hard case to take it wherever you want to go. There when you need it.

Gregg
 
Mr. Pond, I shoot the 44 Mag bullet from both my Ruger Black hawk and my Henry Golden Boy. I reload one bullet for both weapons. I think the reasoning for having a pistol and rifle in the same caliber goes back to the American cowboy. I have not done any real testing on the bullet or load, I worked my hand load to what I find accurite for the pistol and use that round in both guns.
 
I have always loved the idea of sharing mags and ammo between a lightweight rifle/carbine and a handgun. No worries about carrying a second set of mags, less fuss with equipment etc.

I have a couple of carbines in .45acp, my Marlin Camp Carbine being my favorite.
 
I just bought a Keltec sub2000 on friday not because it's the "best" carbine ever but its the same caliber and will share mags with a few of my glocks so I've got lots of accessories already. There's a lot to be said for common functionality among weapons. IMHO of course
 
So why do they make them? to make a profit
Is it to spread the use of handgun calibres? no see question 1
Do they have a particular characteristic/use? yes
Are they normally semi, bolt or lever-action? yes
Are they short range, medium or long? how good of shot are you?

Seriously a lever carbine in 44 mag is a very versatile tool. loaded down for plinking and small game, medium it'll handle most SD situations handily, Hot loaded it'll kill anything that walks. I've got a trapper length (16") rossi 44mag that weighs about 5 pounds, it's one gun to answer most any gun need ;)
 
Generally speaking, a small rifle in a pistol caliber is really fast and accurate 15 - 40 yards. Better than a rifle caliber or a pistol.

If they made a nice MP5 styled 45 ACP with 30 rd mags, a nice light and a dot sight, that would make a hell of a bedside gun! Oh yea and we could get rid of NFA and GOPA laws.
 
Back in the 1800's winchester's sales skyrocketed and they became a legend when they began chambering their lever guns in the same calibers as the Colt SAA and Remington's revolvers. In that era it was the perfect option - holster gun and scabbard gun both using the same round.

Nowadays I think it still makes a lot of sense for many people. Rounds like .357mag, .44mag and .45 gain a lot out of a 16"-24" rifle barrel.

I already own a bunch of .357mag revolvers so having a couple of rifles in the same caliber makes thing convenient. And my 1892 carbine and short rifle are just plain fun.

I'm thinking a .45acp carbine would be a hoot too, but not sure what I'd get (beretta is affordable but HK might be nicer?).
 
In recent times, there was a move to make politically correct long arms for the police. The appearance of M-16, AR, etc. platforms looked too militaristic.

Thus, some pistol caliber weapons from Beretta and Ruger. Long arms were supposed to give better accuracy.

The problem was from the North Hollywood shootout. 9mm, 40 or 45 carbines won't have been the best solution. One magazine gun reviewer, trying to give the guns a good plug, argued that they wouldn't penetrate body armor but would be good for head or knee shots.

That really didn't take off and those guns faded. BTW, there's a new polymer Uzi that's out.
 
The problem was from the North Hollywood shootout. 9mm, 40 or 45 carbines won't have been the best solution. One magazine gun reviewer, trying to give the guns a good plug, argued that they wouldn't penetrate body armor
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on the cartridge. Glock didn't make the long slide (G34/35) in .357 SIG at least partly because there were concerns that LEO's would carry them and then end up getting shot with them when disarmed. And that 5.1" barrel with .357 SIG will go through most body armor. (The velocity increase over the G31's shorter barrel pushed it over the line.) Put it in a rifle length barrel and you are going to whip through just about any soft armor. Going to take a plate to stop it.

Then there are even smaller caliber alternatives. Just don't really like the gun choices. Ron Williams makes AR uppers in 7.62x25 Tok. Now that will go through any vest in style! But I can't buy a nice Glock 35 barrel and magazines for that cartridge. Same deal with 5.7. And while vest penetration is fun to talk about, in most cases I'm better off with a nice Gold Dot hollow point. Or other modern bonded bullet. And that leads me right back to .357 SIG. Which is why I spent the money getting that upper built instead of the others.

Gregg
 
The problem was from the North Hollywood shootout. 9mm, 40 or 45 carbines won't have been the best solution.
Click to expand...

With minimal training several of the officers who were on scene should have been able to take head shots with those pistol carbines.


THe carbines do pretty well with the hard hitting pistol rounds. THe problem is I don't shoot those rounds out of handguns nearly as well/fast as I shoot 9mm. 9mm and even 45 leave something to be desired out of the carbines. I will probably get a 45 carbine and switch my Glocks to 45 though...
 
I would say that the perfect caliber for a PCC to be in would be 10mm :D

I'd love to see the Marlin Camp Carbine redone in a more tactical package in 10mm :D
Bet it'd sell like Hotcakes!!

PCC's like the Calico line of pistols & carbines in .22lr, 9mm, and .40S&W
with the obligatory 50 & 100-rd mags tend to show one how fun a PCC can be ;)

Definitely wouldn't mind seeing a 10mm Calico w/100-rd mags either :D
 
Well, they make them because someone wants to buy them. Nice concept but some people get confused and come up with loads that can't be used in pistols.

The original .44-40 and the other Winchester cartridges like that came out as rifle cartridges that were chambered in revolvers, not the other way around. You remember, at the time animals were much smaller and easier to kill than they are today, so they didn't need real powerful cartridges. Later, as game animals mutated, they had to introduce the .30-30 to handle the situation.

In all seriousness, however, the .44-40 was later made available in a so-called high-speed loading, presumably for rifles (and those mutated game animals), but I don't know how recently it was still being manufactured. "Hi-Speed" was the term before magnum became common.
 
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