Rifle vs Shotgun which is "safer"?

[Brian Pfleuger]

the shotgun is "safer" as far as accidental or negligent discharges go when it comes to people. I might be wrong about this, But its been my experience rifles can be more dangerous to the average, clueless 'joe' than pistols or shotguns.

What makes you say that? I've always seen that handguns are handled worse than any other firearms while long guns of all types are pretty much the same. Previous discussions here on TFL indicate that others have similar experiences.

I've never before seen any indication that any individual would be more dangerous with a shotgun in their hands than they would be with a rifle, or vice versa.

 

[youngunz4life]

then maybe you're right, peetzakilla

I am not an expert, and I can only give my opinion on the subject from what I have seen.

we all know kid ND/AD are with pistols more(example only: finding daddy's gun). I have seen more people have issues with rifles than any other weapon. Someone made a good point about a missed shot too due to travelling distance, but I didn't see that until after I posted. Some rifles when fully loaded have it in single action. Anyways, thats just my feelings on it.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I don't think either one of them is "safer" than the other. The real issue is the person pulling the trigger needs to know their target and what's beyond. If everyone followed that advice, there would be a lot less hunting accidents.

 

[Art Eatman]

Reading through this, we all seem to agree about the stupid factor; it doesn't matter about shotgun, rifle or Daisy Red Ryder.

So, "dangerous" from what factor? Distance a missed shot can travel? Survivability if hit? Probability of a ricochet? All manner of variables in those, looks like. As usual, no "One size fits all."

 

[UniversalFrost]

to the OP,

if you have issues with the recoil of a slug gun, i suggest that you do 1 or more of the following:

switch to a semi auto shotgun
switch to a knoxx comp stock (they actually work) if you have a pump gun
or switch from 12ga to 20ga....

also, try to accurately judge distances (practice makes perfect) on deer sized targets ( as a bowhunter this is paramount, but even rifle hunters tend to underguesstimate) ... easiest way to do this is get a lifesize target (either paper or better yet, a 3d archery target) and have someone set it up at varying distances (someone other than you) and then you get to guess how far the shot is..... it is a real eye opener for most folks... that 125yd shot is really 150-175 or more!

also, I am sure you had the "deer fever" while making the shots and combined with possibly flinching and pulling the shot (you already confessed to the slugs hurting you and you cant put much trigger time in) and you may have guessed the correct yardage, but the other 2 factors caused the missed shots.

for me, i am not recoil shy (I have several BIG guns includings a 416rigby, 458 win, 45/70 , 45/90, 338lapua, 375 H&H, 30-378 weatherby, to name a few) but shooting a single shot or pump action 12ga with a 3" slug makes my shoulder hurt just thinking about it. i switched to a remmy 11/87 awhile back for a slug gun and dropped down to a 2 3/4" slug.... works for me.... on another slug gun I use a mossberg 500 in 20ga and it has a knoxx compstock (the "normal" shotgun stock model) and it feels like i am shooting .223 or similiar and is very very enjoyable to shoot and has extreme accuracy (for a slug anyway) at 100yds ...

just my 2 cents.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Oh... I've got another thought to add on the safety issue....


The whole "rifles are dangerous, you have to use shotguns" argument really falls apart when the state allows "handguns" chambered in rifle cartridges, firing those very same rifle bullets at speeds only a couple 100 fps slower than a full length rifle, to be used throughout the state, anywhere that any firearms are allowed.


My uncle has a Browning X-Bolt chambered in 7mm-08 that he can't use anywhere we hunt because it's all "shotgun only".... but I hunt with my 15" barrel Encore Pro Hunter... chambered in 7mm-08. He shoots a 140gr bullet at 2,900fps. My Pro Hunter can reach 2,600 with that bullet and I'm currently shooting a Barnes TTSX 110gr at 2,830 fps. That TTSX is a ricochet hazard if there ever was one.

 

[tyrajam]

I'm stuck in Indiana with its crazy firearm rules (shotguns, muzzleloaders, rifles shooting pistol cartridges, or pistol firing rifle cartridges are all ok!). I grew up rifle hunting in Oregon, and I don't think one is a bit more dangerous than the other. But like they say, opinions are like...well you know the rest. So here's the proof!

Pennsylvania study of shotgun slugs
(50-caliber saboted
slug)
Vs. centerfire projectiles
(30-06 150 grain
expanding bullet)


Here are the links to the study and Report Highlights.....

http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/reports/2007/168.PDF

http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/reports/2007/168fs.PDF

 

[Sensai]

Every hunting "accidental shooting" that I've heard of was an intentional shooting at a mistaken target. That said, I still can't believe that nine or more projectiles heading in the general direction of where I point a shotgun is as safe as one well aimed projectile from my rifle. Nobody will ever be able to convince me that a muzzle loader pushing a sabot bullet with 150 grains of pyrodex is one bit safer than my 30-30. We now return you to the regularly scheduled program.

 

[Gunplummer]

I live in the area that Pa. wanted to expand to a shotgun area. Check the links that tyrajam posted. I remember the incident with the woman in Whitehall getting shot, it caused State lawmakers to change a law to protect landowners against lawsuits. Argue all you want, but there is the scientific study. I still am living in a rifle area. Sensai, maybe it is the area I live in, but a lot of non-hunters have been hit by stray bullets that over traveled their target. The woman in Whitehall was one of them. A man in a Pizza shop in Bangor comes to mind also.

 

[joe poteat]

good ole boys

Its been my experience that the city slickers were really stupid about hunting or hunting ethics, The so called good ole boys ( and i consider myself one ) were usually brought up with guns and hunting and were taught the "rules". With the new sabot slugs and rifled barrels with practice 125-150 yd shots are probably doable. Anyone out there with ACTUAL experience with these? Country boys are in the woods year round, My guess is the city boys do their macho 5 day deer hunt once a year. Never met a city slicker i much cared for and i'm not prejudiced! LOL Agree it's the shooter not the weapon that is the root of the problem.

 

[JimPage]

rifle vs shotgun safety is not a real issue. The shooter is the safety factor.

The shotgun only because it is safer than rifles theory has been disproven. Hunting accident rate dropped in those areas where shotgun only was eliminated and rifles allowed in PA and NY.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Those links are pretty conclusive evidence.

This information should not be interpreted to conclude that one firearm-ammunition combination is riskier since there is no means to compare the corresponding rate of incidents based on the number of hunter firearm dis-charges.

At a 0° firing angle and taking ricochets into account, some widely used shotgun-ammunition combinations are riskier than centerfire rifles.

Since the VAST, VAST majority of shots at game animals are taken at either zero elevation of the gun or down, toward the ground, it's pretty easy to see why rifles are SLIGHTLY safer, due to the properties of the ricochet, as I said in my first response:

Shotguns slugs are (generally) more likely to "bounce" and remain intact after striking larger obstacles.

The conclusion, for those who wish not to read through 75 pages...

Contrary to the 1998 study, this study concludes that comparing risk using only the
maximum range obtained at a 35-degree firing elevation and the corresponding
danger area of the firearm-ammunition combination provides the policy maker an
incomplete picture. When discharging the examined firearm-ammunition
combinations with large (10 degrees) and moderate (5 degrees) aiming errors, the
danger areas of the shotgun and muzzleloader are less than that of a rifle; hence,
given this firing condition, the shotgun and muzzleloader are less risky than the rifle.
However, shotguns firing modern saboted slugs have a larger danger area than the
.30-06 rifle when the angle of elevation is approximately level (0 degrees); hence,
given this firing condition, the shotgun is riskier than the rifle. In other words, the
typical hunter discharging a 12 gauge shotgun fitted with a rifled barrel firing a .50-
caliber saboted modern high velocity ammunition at a deer on level terrain is riskier
than a hunter firing a .30-06 with a 150 grain expanding bullet at the same deer.
The muzzleloader proved to have less risk in all firing conditions.​

 

[cnimrod]

leave it to Pizza killer

thank you for the links that was exactly my point. I attributed my miss to underestimating the distance and it only got me thinking I wish I could use a rifle instead - it's more forgiving in that regard.
As for my miss, OK you want to analyze, 12 ga in a Mossberg 500 rifled barrel. zero at 100yds seated on sandbags.
I was using Winchester 2-3/4 " sabots. standing resting against a tree.
visibilty great- woods open, snow covered.
Flinch while actually shooting at game?- never. deer fever?- always.
Best advice i read here - get a new gun. Oh honey my birthday's coming up
thank you all

 

[shortwave]

Best advice i read here- get a new gun. Oh honey my birthday's coming up

Aaaaagh.... I get it now!
If ya wanted all us to say a rifle is safer so 'honey' will let you buy a new rifle, why didn't you say so.

THE RIFLE'S SAFER HONEY!

We won't tell 'honey' you should still practice as much with your new rifle as you would with that shotgun.

 

[cnimrod]

not ready to retire

and be able to leave NJ yet, so it'd have to be a shotgun. Did post on another thread (Bolt action shotguns) if anyone has the Savage 20 ga - no response

 

[Outdoorsman]

As far as safty goes, I'll vote for the rifle.

As to how far the shotgun with slugs is effective.....

Depends on the gun and ammo combo used.

Smooth bore gun and "rifled slugs"....less than 100 yds.

BUT, a rifled barrel of 1-28 twist with one of the faster loaded sabot slugs is capable of well over 100yds.

I've taken 7 deer with a Benelli SBE with a scope & Fed. Barnes sabot slugs beyond 100yds. Perhaps I'm lucky, but my gun shoots amazingly tight with that set up. I'm zeroed @ 135yds & have taken deer at up to 168yds.

As numerous others have already posted, practice is the real key, with any gun. But IMO it's doubly important when making use of guns with something less than a flat trajectory. I've set up my SBE with a Kick-Ezee magnum rifle recoil pad & both forend mag. cap mercury reducer & a second mercury tube in the rear stock. This reduces the recoil of 2.75" slugs I shoot to sane levels so I am able to practice EVERY year during the summer & early fall. (Yes I know mercury tubes reduce recoil more through weight than the shifting of the mercury, but every little bit helps with slug guns.) I've a range set up on my farm and can practice out to 600yds max depending on the gun I'm using & I practice often with them.

If you put in the time practicing with a slug gun/load to know your set up well, and use a range finder in advance on trees, bushes....whatever, then you will find that a modern slug load fired through a good barrel gives more range than most hunters will ever realize.

 

[ELarsen]

too much recoil to practice much? use "kinder" ammo

I hunt the S IL woods and a shot beyond 50 yds is uncommon, beyond 75 yds is rare.

My smooth bore, Rem Model 58, w/ rifled slugs (>1600ft/sec) are plenty accurate at modest ranges.

I experimented with some fancy saboted rounds to convince myself they were not worth the money. I experimented with rifled slugs that beat me up at the range (<1600ft/sec) and found they were not more accurate in my slug gun than the rounds with less recoil.

The result is that I get to shoot more at the range with reduced recoil slugs (~1560ft/sec) and can buy them for less than $4/5 shells. Relatively cheap. Lots of practice at the range.

but then you get faster drop-off at 100 yds...not a problem for me as I know my shotgun w/ slug barrel isn't very accurate that far out.

Plus, I bought a range finder. I hunt from a stand most of the time, so I want to know how far it is to the farthest tree where I might get a shot, the distance to the intermediate tree, and "right in my face close"

If you move around a lot, this may not help you, but perhaps you could get the range of distant "potential shots" as you move. Good practice to make a guess, then check with the range finder.

 

[-Fluffy-]

ELarsen - It's similar up here in Wisconsin. Most deer are taken between 40-70 yards. Obviously, some will be taken from 70-100, but not many. As far as I hear, 100+ in almost unheard of. It doesn't take that much power to take a buck at 55 yards. Heck, my K-frame .357 could do it with a well placed shot, and I shoot tennis balls all day at 50 yards with it.

 

[M.O.A.]

now now cant we all just get along lol

shotgun rifle pistol there all deadly when shoot at someone so the key is not to shoot at people and always het ur entended target.

as for the law for shotguns only i hate it i live i indiana too and we can now use a rifle but in pistol cals only but we can use rifle cals but with 15" or less barrels whats the diff. in the two????


now let me ask u this what is safer a guy using a rifle in 30-06 or a guy how thinks he can hang on to a 10" barreled pistol in 30-06?????

 

[cnimrod]

so the consensus seems to be...

that states disallow rifles purely due to their extended range and that only becomes a safety issue when one takes a shot and is not sure of the "beyond"
(i.e. you break the cardinal rule of knowing your target and beyond), which is dangerous regardless of what you are shooting. Interesting they are allowing handguns now in some areas of upstate NY that were shotgun only. Go figure.
So any F&G folks here, how does this get decided?