Rifle stopping effects

I know some of these guys are tuff. But a 2 to 5'' wound channel aint all that easy to walk off. seems like either one would rate pretty high on the O****ameter sure would if it was Me what about you???:eek:
 
Hydrostatic shock is just the beginning. As a high velocity bullet passes through human tissue the attendant shock wave opens up a fairly massive temporary wound channel. It does this by displacing the tissue immediately surrounding the path of the bullet.

Because this tissue is very elastic the temporary wound channel for something like the 7.62 can be as much as six inches (or more in some cases) in diameter.

As the bullet passes through the body, and the pressure wave subsides, the temporary wound channel collapses back in on itself leaving a permanent wound channel. The permanent wound channel is created by that tissue that was stressed beyond the elastic limits by the temporary wound channel and the sudden overpressure.

The permanent wound channel is usually just a little larger than the diameter of the projectile - about 100% to 150% - or for the 7.62 projectile between 8 mm and 18 mm (give or take).

Now, because there are a lot of variables here - both ballistic and tissue-related - it is a little bit difficult to be precise. I've seen enough variation on wounds that some show very little apparent damage and some show massive damage. The 7.62 - fired out of a battlefield rifle and striking the viscera - will almost always do massive damage. Not always fatal, but virtually always incapacitating.

BTW, ballistic gelatin is a poor analog for human tissue.
 
Yeah, World War II was won because of .30-06. Any other military conflicts we have engaged in after WWII were because we didn't use an MBR in .30. That's exactly it. I'm sure we'll have no problem getting the Taliban on to the deck of the USS Missouri to sign their unconditional surrender once we start re-issuing Garands.

Oh yeah, and soldiers definitely don't walk anymore. Just ask any Iraq and Afghanistan veteran.

Bullets don't drop targets, well placed shots do. 5.56 isn't a perfect round, but it is effective with the proper training. A bigger, heavier round might have better effective range and terminal ballistics, but there will be tradeoffs regarding weight and combat load. In the meantime, shot placement will continue to be, as it always has, the key aspect of marksmanship, whether for hunting or combat. A 2"-5" is going to be difficult to walk off, but it will be impossible to walk off if that wound channel is affecting lungs, the heart, etc.
 
I havn't figured out how to quote people yet but isn't that from remingtons custom shop or something? Seems like i heard someone i know saying something about it.
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its from the freedom group ( a bunch of firearms and gun related companies)

its a necked down 5.56 with a 30 cal bullet

250px-Five_bullets.jpg


300 black out --- 5.56--- 7.62x39

designed to fill the mid range issue of the 5.56 without the feeding problems of the ultra necked down ak style round and the magazines profile that are problematic in the ar platform. plus all the surplus hi cap ar mags work with it.
 
A cousin of mine says for plinking or in the woods gun its a decent choice, but for a battle rifle he hates it. well placed shots do make a diff. but when it's my life on the line i want nothing but the best and overkill is not in my vocabulary.
 
to each his own i guess. to me the 300 blackout makes more sense than the 6.8 which never caught on in the market. All the 300 takes is a barrel change vs the 6.8 total swap over.

sniped from aac's site
Introducing the Advanced Armament Corp. 300 AAC Blackout (300BLK). This system was developed to launch 30 caliber projectiles from the AR platform without a reduction in magazine capacity and compatible with the standard bolt.

Full power 115-125 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK, and eclipses 5.56mm with much higher-mass projectiles for a more dramatic effect on the target. Or choose subsonic cartridges for optimal use with a sound suppressor - 220 grain Sierra OTM (open-tip match) bullets vastly outperforms a 9mm MP5-SD in penetration and long range accuracy.

Ammo and brass prices are low - Remington 115 grain UMC ammo is $12.99 a box MSRP - and it is not bare bones. It has waterproofed primers, crimped and cannelured open-tip match bullets, and a low-drag design.

At 300 meters, 300 BLK has 16.7% more energy than 7.62x39mm. Max effective range, using M4 military standards for hit probability, is 440 meters for a 9 inch barrel, and 460 meters for a 16 inch barrel. 300 BLK from a 9 inch barrel has the same energy at the muzzle as a 14.5 inch barrel M4, and about 5% more energy at 440 meters - even though the barrel is much shorter.

For hunting - think of it as like a 30-30 but from an AR. After you are done, you can remove your 5-round magazine and put in a 30 for plinking or home defense. For ammo, Remington has you covered with the Premiere AccuTip 125 grain. Want industry-wide support? Over 60 companies have already announced or sell products.

Due to the high efficiency of the cartridge, less powder is used than 5.56mm, which results in a rifle that is a comfortable to shoot - even with a short barrel.
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.300 Blackout makes little sense for most shooters outside of subsonic/suppressed applications.

Read up on the ballistics.

Do a search, recent thread on the topic.

Shoving a (slow) .30 cal pill out of an AR platform doesn't make much sense for most applications. If you want to hunt, the 6.5 Grendel will do everything that round will do far better- more velocity, more kinetic energy, at every range.
 
I'm skeptical of a "hydrostatic shock" that would turn everything in a targets torso to mush. I would think that if there is a cavitation/hydrostatic effect, any such mush from it would be within an inch or 2 of the bullet path at most.
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Don't hunt much?

I can assure you that high powered rifle bullet through a deer's chest can and often does turn organs such as the lungs into goo .... with the consistancy of bloody course ground hamburger. I've pulled out a heart that the bullet had just clipped the top of, but the thing was ripped down the backside such that it opened like a book in my hand, exposing the chambers. The bullet did not do that: the rip was right down the seam between the chambers, and ran roughly 90 degrees to the path of the bullet, which hit the animal broadside and continued out the other side. The "heart sack" wasn't even around it when I pulled it out...... the bullet did not do that- 2000+ ft/lbs of energy did.
 
Not sure why folks are not convinced about hydrostatic shock. After all, it is the entire principle of why the M16 was and is so deadly. With nearly 50 years of service time, if the M16 platform did not work, we would have abandoned its use years ago.

Take a look at the following video:

http://www.info4guns.com/highspeed_bullet_in_ballistics_gel.html

Tissues and organs experience disruption of blood supply with hydrostatic shock. During surgery for high velocity bullets, all of that devitalized tissue has to be removed or it will end in dead tissues bringing massive infection.
 
+2 Alaska and Jimbob. Folks who think bullets just "zip" through without doing any damage other than a little hole have been watching too many movies where the good guy get shot but the wound is quickly cured with a hanky.

I too have poured lungs out of a deer's diaphram and seen a heart blown into pieces without being hit by the bullet. I won't even go into combat wounds, thank you, I want to sleep tonight.
 
What you are looking for is the increased surface area of a projectile passing through a body. Regular 5.56x45 (aka 223) do a pretty good job of yawing 2-3" into the target dumping energy and fragmenting in the target while 7.62X51 (308 win) FMJs don't usualy don't yaw untill aprox 12-14" of penatration. As a civilian if I wanted maximum damage per shot I would use 125gr Ballistic Tips that would have 308 energy and expand on impact causing nasty damage. If you were dead set on FMJs the 55gr 223 is better due to it's YOC (Yaw on contact) design.
 
How about the hydrostatic shock of a .50 BMG. Definitely don't want to step in front of that bullet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSGuiko6Gg&feature=related

Compare that to a .380 at less than 1000 fps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ6Jslg4e_0&feature=related

Take a look at the .223 ballistics gel test to see the difference between the .380 which is not at high enough velocity for hydrostatic shock vs the .223/5.56 which kills by hydrostatic shock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJsuu_wE-Wo
 
I wouldn't want to step in front of any of them at 50 to a 100 yds. But the military has started to reintroduce the M-14 (a Garand) for longer range engagements.
There was an article in the NRA December 2011 Rifleman's magazine titled "Sniping in Afghanistan" They are also fitting the M-14 with an AR style stock. The primary ammo is 7.62 mm, M118 Long Range, a 175 gr match load. It has one-third less wind drift than a 62-gr, 5.56 mm bullet, it delivers more than four times the energy at extended ranges. At 650 yds. the M118LR has as much energy 1,000 ft-lbs as the 5.56 mm round at 100 yds.
 
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Even 50cal ain't any different. I've seen some gel results that showed that when the 50cal didn't yaw, the forces exerted against the gel block was no different than a hollow point pistol round.
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Maybe I watch too much TV, but as I understand it, a bullet from the .50 BMG round has a temporary wound channel larger then the human body. The .50 has 15,000 foot pounds of energy, compared to a .357 mag which has 580 foot pounds of energy. Something tells me not many people will live threw 15,000 foot pounds of force, even if no vitals are hit. But I’ve been wrong once or twice before.
 
tobnpr said:
.300 Blackout makes little sense for most shooters outside of subsonic/suppressed applications.

Read up on the ballistics.

Do a search, recent thread on the topic.

Shoving a (slow) .30 cal pill out of an AR platform doesn't make much sense for most applications. If you want to hunt, the 6.5 Grendel will do everything that round will do far better- more velocity, more kinetic energy, at every range.
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300 AAC Blackout is the best a way to fire 30 caliber bullets from an an AR15 while still keeping 30 round capacity with normal magazines - and it uses a normal bolt.

Muzzle energy does not kill - damaging tissue does. Muzzle energy is needed to be the force for which makes the bullet perform - and we have that worked out with the bullets. See below for a photo of how even at 300 yards, and even from a 9 inch barrel, the bullet still expands to over 50 caliber and penetrates to 24 inches in 10% ballistic gel.

It has no more reason to be suppressed than 30-30 or 7.62x39. It happens to suppress very well - but that is a bonus - it does not mean it needs to be.

Without a suppressor it has far less flash and blast than 5.56mm - as it is more efficient. The energy from the powder is more used to propel the bullet than be wasted as noise. This is why it has more muzzle energy than 5.56mm even though it uses less powder.

300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg


300blk300small.jpg


300+ lb pig - dropped in place.

Lower cost ammo:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/54...62x35mm-115-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-20

Latest updates are here:

https://www.facebook.com/300aacblackout

Lots of discussion here:

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/

There is an FAQ here with links to some videos - and over 80 companies are supporting it now:

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73274



http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3598/20120102172509152.jpg
 
The .50 cal BMG is a scaled up version of the .30-06 and has been in service since 1921 and is still in service. Good ol Ma Deuce is a favorite. It will punch holes through a lot of material that will stop a M-16 or M-14 round.

This from Wikipedia, so consider the source:
"A common method for understanding the actual power of a cartridge is by comparing muzzle energies. The Springfield .30-06, the standard caliber for American soldiers in both World Wars and a popular caliber amongst American hunters, can produce muzzle energies between 2000 and 3000 foot pounds of energy (between 3 and 4 kilojoules). A .50 BMG round can produce between 10,000 and 15,000 foot pounds (between 14 and 18 kilojoules) or more, depending on its powder and bullet type, as well as the rifle it was fired from. Due to the high ballistic coefficient of the bullet, the .50 BMG's trajectory also suffers less "drift" from cross-winds than smaller and lighter calibers, making the .50 BMG a good choice for high-powered sniper rifles."

By the way, so much for needing a shorter round for machine guns.
 
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