Rifle Photos
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Ok Art, I did it. Is the server MO happy now? I'm not going to take down the picture of my Dad's 511 until Rich or Dona tell me that it is important to do so! 
BTW The images I had up were on Rosie's server, yes, I know that it takes time for them to get here with the img code but. I cut mine out all the way.
[Edited by HankL on 01-04-2001 at 10:31 PM]
BTW The images I had up were on Rosie's server, yes, I know that it takes time for them to get here with the img code but. I cut mine out all the way.
[Edited by HankL on 01-04-2001 at 10:31 PM]
Mike Baugh
New member
JWesterburg
The case is an Eagle sniper rifle cover . There is also a scope cover and 2 ammo pouches in the picture . Good luck , Mike...
The case is an Eagle sniper rifle cover . There is also a scope cover and 2 ammo pouches in the picture . Good luck , Mike...
You guys are way too obsessed with this paranoia. I know you guys will be angry at me for this, but I'm applying for a student summer job with the Bureau of ATF. I mailed them last week asking for some information about the student jobs. I already have got a higher grade point average in school than is necessary to apply for the job, and I'm 16 (barely making the minimum age requirement). All the other kids got jobs. I might as well get one too. What is so wrong about the ATF and FBI? ATF and FBI agents are law enforcement officers and deserve some respect. I would dislike seeing more gun laws get made (we have enough I think), but if you are going to have laws, might as well enforce them. Local law enforcement will be enforcing laws like these as well... are you guys going to start hating the police as well? This is ridiculous.
I am in no way against people owning firearms (I own a hunting shotgun), but this level of paranoia and hatred toward our own government is simply at absurd levels. I've seen the written material of someone who might be considered a member of a "subversive organization." I can see how you guys get sucked into this whole concept of paranoia against our own government... I almost did. After a couple hours of reading this guy's work, I was about ready to "spread the gospel" of paranoia and "enlighten" people on his behalf. These guys are very charismatic and good at recruiting people. I'm glad that some of my close friends stopped me and had me think about the totally bogus concepts that I was actually finding myself ready to believe.
The government is not trying to enslave you. If they wanted to buy back our guns some day, I would protest loudly, but I would certainly follow the laws and let them buy back my guns. How can our country survive if people won't even trust their own government? I'm just 16 years old, and I might be a little naive, but seriously, how can you guys actually believe your own country is out to get you?
[Edited by Chang on 01-04-2001 at 09:52 PM]
I am in no way against people owning firearms (I own a hunting shotgun), but this level of paranoia and hatred toward our own government is simply at absurd levels. I've seen the written material of someone who might be considered a member of a "subversive organization." I can see how you guys get sucked into this whole concept of paranoia against our own government... I almost did. After a couple hours of reading this guy's work, I was about ready to "spread the gospel" of paranoia and "enlighten" people on his behalf. These guys are very charismatic and good at recruiting people. I'm glad that some of my close friends stopped me and had me think about the totally bogus concepts that I was actually finding myself ready to believe.
The government is not trying to enslave you. If they wanted to buy back our guns some day, I would protest loudly, but I would certainly follow the laws and let them buy back my guns. How can our country survive if people won't even trust their own government? I'm just 16 years old, and I might be a little naive, but seriously, how can you guys actually believe your own country is out to get you?
[Edited by Chang on 01-04-2001 at 09:52 PM]
Yeah... Clinton and Gore own "hunting" shotguns, too.
Yeah... They're here to help us.
How, exactly, can they "buy back" our guns when they never owned them in the first place?
We've done alright for the past 225 years. Ever heard of the "Constitution" or the "Federalist Papers"? If you read 'em, you might find that there were some guys a few years back who didn't quite trust our government, either.
Yep.
Again, read the constitution.
Chang, I was once sixteen years old, and "knew everything". At sixteen, the constitution to me was little more than a piece of paper with words on it, signed by a bunch of white wigged old farts dead for a hundred years.
Even at 18-21, while in the service, about all I knew of the constitution, was that I was supposed to protect that constitution, and/or die trying to.
After a while, I realized a that our "elected" officials took the same oath I did, and that they were doing a really piss-poor job of protecting it (much less lay their life on the line for it).
From the tone of your post it's apparent that you may believe that the government is supposed to be in charge. Seems to be a very common misconception these days. Remember the preamble? It starts with "We the PEOPLE". That means WE run the government. Not some old fat geezer with a wallet full of political contributions. So think about it when the government wants to cut your shotgun in half because they're "in charge".
As far as "letting the government buy back my guns", all I can say is, "MOLON LABE"!
Even at 18-21, while in the service, about all I knew of the constitution, was that I was supposed to protect that constitution, and/or die trying to.
After a while, I realized a that our "elected" officials took the same oath I did, and that they were doing a really piss-poor job of protecting it (much less lay their life on the line for it).
From the tone of your post it's apparent that you may believe that the government is supposed to be in charge. Seems to be a very common misconception these days. Remember the preamble? It starts with "We the PEOPLE". That means WE run the government. Not some old fat geezer with a wallet full of political contributions. So think about it when the government wants to cut your shotgun in half because they're "in charge".
As far as "letting the government buy back my guns", all I can say is, "MOLON LABE"!
Chang we are in power.
Chang, the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to ensure that we remain in charge of this government. I will never, ever sell my firearms back to the government. My firearms are for my protection and yours from criminals, tyrranical governments, foreign attack, and for recreational purposes. As soon as I surrender my firearms to the government I no longer have any power at all. The person with the power (guns) makes the will of the people. Right now that is the citizens.
I fully support your career in law enforcement. I plan on getting into law enforcement too. I would suggest you rethink your position on firearms. They are critical to your freedom. Never should you surrender them. I want a good solid thinker in the BATF that will be able to do what is right. Chang, right now you sound like one of the people who just goes with the flow and that is dangerous.
Are you going to trust the same government that enslaved people in the 18th and 19th centuries? Are you going to trust the same government that "preserved" the American Indians rights? Are you going to trust the same government who gave us Waco and Ruby Ridge? I don't trust them. That doesn't mean I can't work with the government and make it work for me. I just don't chose to put blind faith into men. Men who are corruptable, power mongers, and enjoy controlling others.
I would like you to respond to these posts. Forget the guys who just dismiss you as a dumb kid. They are fools themselves. They do not realize that you are still impressionable and that you still make decisions that will effect our lives. I hope to give you some things to think about and maybe one day I will be relying on you to support the ideals of freedom. Thanks for stopping by.
Chang, the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to ensure that we remain in charge of this government. I will never, ever sell my firearms back to the government. My firearms are for my protection and yours from criminals, tyrranical governments, foreign attack, and for recreational purposes. As soon as I surrender my firearms to the government I no longer have any power at all. The person with the power (guns) makes the will of the people. Right now that is the citizens.
I fully support your career in law enforcement. I plan on getting into law enforcement too. I would suggest you rethink your position on firearms. They are critical to your freedom. Never should you surrender them. I want a good solid thinker in the BATF that will be able to do what is right. Chang, right now you sound like one of the people who just goes with the flow and that is dangerous.
Are you going to trust the same government that enslaved people in the 18th and 19th centuries? Are you going to trust the same government that "preserved" the American Indians rights? Are you going to trust the same government who gave us Waco and Ruby Ridge? I don't trust them. That doesn't mean I can't work with the government and make it work for me. I just don't chose to put blind faith into men. Men who are corruptable, power mongers, and enjoy controlling others.
I would like you to respond to these posts. Forget the guys who just dismiss you as a dumb kid. They are fools themselves. They do not realize that you are still impressionable and that you still make decisions that will effect our lives. I hope to give you some things to think about and maybe one day I will be relying on you to support the ideals of freedom. Thanks for stopping by.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Chang: "Some" is not the same as "All", okay. Now: Some employees in the upper echelons of government believe that only the police and military should be allowed to possess firearms of any sort. Some of these work for agencies such as the FBI and the BATF.
An example in another arena of law enforcement is Darryl Gates, once police chief of Los Angeles, California.
I strongly suggest that you read the Preamble to the Bill of Rights. Few people do; but it explains WHY the Bill of Rights was written. Further, remember that the BOR does not GRANT any rights; it lists rights which exist separately from and prior to any government. Another way to look at it is, these rights exist in spite of government.
The government might indeed pass a law mandating that we sell our guns to the government--not that they can afford it--but that is in violation of the Second and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.
Now: Anybody wants to go forward with this, start a new thread in Legal & Political. Possibly, "Hey, Chang!" as the title? Anyway, High Road!
Art
That said, a job with the BATF should prove to be a learning experience.
An example in another arena of law enforcement is Darryl Gates, once police chief of Los Angeles, California.
I strongly suggest that you read the Preamble to the Bill of Rights. Few people do; but it explains WHY the Bill of Rights was written. Further, remember that the BOR does not GRANT any rights; it lists rights which exist separately from and prior to any government. Another way to look at it is, these rights exist in spite of government.
The government might indeed pass a law mandating that we sell our guns to the government--not that they can afford it--but that is in violation of the Second and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.
Now: Anybody wants to go forward with this, start a new thread in Legal & Political. Possibly, "Hey, Chang!" as the title? Anyway, High Road!
Art
That said, a job with the BATF should prove to be a learning experience.
El Rojo, I'm not sure it is a job involved with law enforcement. It's a student job, and I don't know too much about it, but I wrote to them and asked them to send me some information. I'm pretty sure I'll be applying unless it conflicts with something already in my summer schedule.
It's called the STEP. Student Temporary Employment Program. Or something like that. As far as thinking over the position on gun rights, I have been thinking about it a lot. I'm definately pro-gun. I'm an NRA member and I believe people should certainly be allowed to own firearms.
I also am a member in the local rifle association (Champaign County) and was considering joining the Illinois State Rifle Association. I attend meetings from the Champaign County Rifle Association and I believe myself to be active in our efforts to keep the shooting and hunting tradition legal.
However, if laws are made outlawing the possession of a firearm, I will certainly follow the law. I do not believe a law banning private ownership of firearms is constitutionally correct, but I cannot see how defying the new law will get us anywhere. If anything, it will only hurt those trying to take legal action to get the right to own firearms restored to the people.
When, and if, firearms are ever banned, it would be in a time when gun ownership would be considered hurtful and wrong by a very very high percentage of the population. Gun owners would be thought of as crazy and violent. If a law were made, and gun owners did not follow the law, public opinion of the gun culture would drop ever quicker. How high is our chance of legally regaining our precious second amendment when nobody will even listen to us?
It is for this reason that I suggest we follow all gun laws that are passed, but try our hardest to prevent more laws from being made. We will never succeed in getting people over to our side if the image we project is of rebellious citizens who are unwilling to cooperate with law enforcement and are unwilling to follow laws.
I'll admit that I'm on the trusting side. In general, I trust the government to make good decisions. In general, I believe the FBI and BATF are good organizations that provide stability for our country. Cautious is fine. However, I do not see just cautious behavior on the part of most people here, I see something that is bordering on the level of paranoia, which is not good. As I said, why is it that people have unreasonable fears of the federal law enforcement and then cite past tragedies involving this group as reason to be paranoid?
I'm pretty sure that there have been a lot of accidental deaths or problems caused by state or municipal police officers, yet I do not see people (except drug dealers) constantly paranoid about the local police. The police are overall, much more helpful to the community despite the occasional (and rare) problem. Similarily, the FBI and ATF overall do us a lot of good. I hope that my efforts to enter the student employment program offered by the ATF works out, as it would be an excellent learning experience for me as a United States citizen.
I'm sure there are many people who have been aided somehow by the FBI or ATF. The FBI have aided in removing countless numbers of violent criminals from our streets, and the ATF has helped in enforcing some necessary restrictions on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms that help ensure the safety of our people. God bless them for the good that they have brought to our country.
It's called the STEP. Student Temporary Employment Program. Or something like that. As far as thinking over the position on gun rights, I have been thinking about it a lot. I'm definately pro-gun. I'm an NRA member and I believe people should certainly be allowed to own firearms.
I also am a member in the local rifle association (Champaign County) and was considering joining the Illinois State Rifle Association. I attend meetings from the Champaign County Rifle Association and I believe myself to be active in our efforts to keep the shooting and hunting tradition legal.
However, if laws are made outlawing the possession of a firearm, I will certainly follow the law. I do not believe a law banning private ownership of firearms is constitutionally correct, but I cannot see how defying the new law will get us anywhere. If anything, it will only hurt those trying to take legal action to get the right to own firearms restored to the people.
When, and if, firearms are ever banned, it would be in a time when gun ownership would be considered hurtful and wrong by a very very high percentage of the population. Gun owners would be thought of as crazy and violent. If a law were made, and gun owners did not follow the law, public opinion of the gun culture would drop ever quicker. How high is our chance of legally regaining our precious second amendment when nobody will even listen to us?
It is for this reason that I suggest we follow all gun laws that are passed, but try our hardest to prevent more laws from being made. We will never succeed in getting people over to our side if the image we project is of rebellious citizens who are unwilling to cooperate with law enforcement and are unwilling to follow laws.
I'll admit that I'm on the trusting side. In general, I trust the government to make good decisions. In general, I believe the FBI and BATF are good organizations that provide stability for our country. Cautious is fine. However, I do not see just cautious behavior on the part of most people here, I see something that is bordering on the level of paranoia, which is not good. As I said, why is it that people have unreasonable fears of the federal law enforcement and then cite past tragedies involving this group as reason to be paranoid?
I'm pretty sure that there have been a lot of accidental deaths or problems caused by state or municipal police officers, yet I do not see people (except drug dealers) constantly paranoid about the local police. The police are overall, much more helpful to the community despite the occasional (and rare) problem. Similarily, the FBI and ATF overall do us a lot of good. I hope that my efforts to enter the student employment program offered by the ATF works out, as it would be an excellent learning experience for me as a United States citizen.
I'm sure there are many people who have been aided somehow by the FBI or ATF. The FBI have aided in removing countless numbers of violent criminals from our streets, and the ATF has helped in enforcing some necessary restrictions on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms that help ensure the safety of our people. God bless them for the good that they have brought to our country.
.Hook_N_Bullet
New member
Wow, did this thread go political! I haven't checked it since I saw Hank's pictures. I just wanted to say thanks to Hank for giving me a better visualization of my dream!
Hopefully someday I will have a collection like that!
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo John Aschcroft!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave
Hopefully someday I will have a collection like that!
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo John Aschcroft!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave
Chang, come on, don't buy into the babble.
Chang, I don't understand how you can support the 2nd Amendment as a basic right established by the people for the people, but then you take a position to give it up just as easily. Make no mistake about it Chang, most citizens will do the right thing if guns are outlawed, they will not stand for tyrrany. When are you going to take a stand? When are you going to stand up for what you believe and not allow the liberals to take away your rights? I hope it will be soon. You are buying into their arguement. By saying that you would turn in your guns, you are supporting the arguement that guns are bad. You are saying that law-abiding citizens are incapable of being trusted with firearms. Do not degrade us all so!
Chang your willingness to just give up your enjoyment, your rights, and your heritage because some people don't like it is absurd. It is time to take a stand. If they can take your guns, what will they get next? Your right to parent? Your right to a fair and impartial trial? It will only be the beginning. I urge you to rethink your position.
Chang, I don't understand how you can support the 2nd Amendment as a basic right established by the people for the people, but then you take a position to give it up just as easily. Make no mistake about it Chang, most citizens will do the right thing if guns are outlawed, they will not stand for tyrrany. When are you going to take a stand? When are you going to stand up for what you believe and not allow the liberals to take away your rights? I hope it will be soon. You are buying into their arguement. By saying that you would turn in your guns, you are supporting the arguement that guns are bad. You are saying that law-abiding citizens are incapable of being trusted with firearms. Do not degrade us all so!
Chang your willingness to just give up your enjoyment, your rights, and your heritage because some people don't like it is absurd. It is time to take a stand. If they can take your guns, what will they get next? Your right to parent? Your right to a fair and impartial trial? It will only be the beginning. I urge you to rethink your position.
Let me respond this way.
ALL men are created equal.
Thus, no man is your master.
No man has a right to disarm you.
An unarmed population lives at the whim of the political ruling class. Elitists throughout world history have shown very little regard for the lives and rights of the peasantry.
We are not peasants. We are citizens. We are the equal of any politico in Washington. Those in Washington are men, like us, although a little softer and a little more nihilistic. They are not superior beings. They have no right to disarm us, never have, never will.
As a CITIZEN of the United States, you have the responsibility to apose unconstitutional law.
ALL men are created equal.
Thus, no man is your master.
No man has a right to disarm you.
An unarmed population lives at the whim of the political ruling class. Elitists throughout world history have shown very little regard for the lives and rights of the peasantry.
We are not peasants. We are citizens. We are the equal of any politico in Washington. Those in Washington are men, like us, although a little softer and a little more nihilistic. They are not superior beings. They have no right to disarm us, never have, never will.
As a CITIZEN of the United States, you have the responsibility to apose unconstitutional law.
patrickt66
New member
What Shin Tao said!!!!!
Damn straight!
Damn straight!
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Y'all can start over in L&P
Art
Art
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