Rifle instead of shotgun for LEO's?

"Carbine" is associated moreso with barrel length than caliber. I've shot some very nifty (& accurate Rem 760 pumps in .308 w/18.5" bbls which are designated as carbines) - easily as accuarate as most "sniper bolts" many "rug warriors" have at the range. & a 14" bbl T/C I've got does
sub-MOA any day I can hold it.

Whoever the idiot is that wrote this article is just that - & has about zip idea regarding effective employment of anything tactical whatsoever. "Accuracy" out of an 870 to 75 yards is a wet dream (unless using a proven combo of rifled bbl/choke & slugs & "max range" of 300 is just stupid no matter what.

No doubt we can all get a fuzzy feeling about the "no select fire" aspect - 3+ bursts at 400 yards (5 MOA rifle + recoil "advantages" = 15" + recoil = [call it] an "accurate" 30" group ... fuzzy = /off) to take out a perp ... I'd be plenty surprised that 1/2 the bullets would actually hit the house.

Again, I'm all for the capable LEO having capable tools to perform the good thing. But, this whole thing smacks of an "oops!" in the making.

Any LEOs care to comment?
 
Nothing like promoting a few more gun myths :(

I'm not real sure how wise this is. I know I've gone 'round with a couple of LEOs about this issue here before.

I can easily see an LEO with not enough training getting some adrenalin pumping through him and taking the "carbine" into a situation it doesn't belong in. The real danger is to employ "spray and pray" tactics under stress (already happens with handguns) in an urban/suburban environment where the .223 is likely to go through several walls. Could be a nightmare in an apartment complex and even be quite dangerous in a residential neighborhood.
 
10 years or so ago the San Jose Calif police got in a wild shootout leaving two officers dead. I followed the story in the local paper and other sources, and I think I can recall the pertinent details.

Call started when a bum acting a bit nutty but not violent came in from a local restraunt. A single officer responds, treats the call as "just the usual" and is gently escorting the bum out the door.

Bum grabs officers weapon from holster, chases cop out the door and down the street and into an alley. Cop screams for help into his radio, hunkers behind parked car, pops his head up to see if the bum is still in pursuit. He was. Cop takes a round through the forehead and drops dead.

Meanwhile every cop in the area is converging. Bum staggers out of the alley waving the gun and yelling, and an enormous number of cops start unloading on the fool with every round available.

Unfortunately it's too much like a "circular firing squad". Several officers opens up from about 50ft (or yards?) away with Double-0 12ga...one pellet ricochets, strikes another officer just under the vest, lodges in his kidney, he dies.

Bum is total swiss cheese of course.

If each ROUND pellet from a 00 12ga is potentially lethal, and the roundness aids ricochets, flinging them out en mass at too great a range seems...well, nuts.

Granted, this was a single very strange incident. But I can certainly see the appeal of something a little more "surgical" if things turn into a very bad day.

That said, is .223 the right answer? One can make a case for taking one of the Ruger magazine-fed .44Mag leverguns and adding LEO-only 20rd mags? That would add up to a good round, accurate, and would encourage something other than "spray'n'pray"?

Jim
 
Am I missing something here, or do these two paragraphs not make sense?

Seems to me that 100 yards is an awful long way for a shotgun, and a shotgun is a lot more gun than any .22. But, a .22, with and effective range longer than 100 yards?

While it's technically correct, I can't help but wonder: Are they trying to persuade us of something?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric of IN:
http://www.starnews.com/news/articles/0725_GUNS.html

Johnson deputies get long-range firepower

... A 12-gauge shotgun sprays out nine pellets about the size of a pea with one blast. The shot spreads out as it travels away from the muzzle and is fairly accurate and can be deadly up to 100 yards.

... "A suspect could be armed with a .22-caliber rifle, and if all you had was a shotgun, you'd be outgunned because he would have the advantage of a weapon with a longer range."

[/quote]



[This message has been edited by seronac (edited July 26, 2000).]
 
My agency issues the Remington 870P and gives the patrol officers the option of carrying personally owned rifles of 5.56 caliber.
Sgts are issued a Remington 1100 and Mini14, as well as a bolt action in 270 which was an arms room scavenge trophy.
I personally am happy that we are getting rifles.
Most LEO shotgun shootings take place at around 20 or 25 yards. Most LEO rifle shootings take place around 50-70 yards.The 2 mile thing is so much garbage...like why would you shoot a person a mile or two miles away? What sort of threat does that person present to you that would justify the use of deadly physical force. I hope one of the LE agencies interviewed gets a corrective article published.
 
I live in Sierra county New Mexico. Our Sheriff's department carries a shotgun, Mini 14, and a Ruger PC40. Our State police carries a shotgun and an M16/AR15. I am not sure what the US Border Partol carries in the area other than their 40 cal Beretta. Both have also been known to bring 2 milk crates full of ammo with on a routine weekend shift. In some places, when you call for backup, you could be waiting for a while.
 
I sent a letter to the online editor. In it I detailed the incorrect information throughout the article. I got back this reply:
---
Hello:

I've forwarded your concerns to our city editor, Paula Jarret. She'll be talking
with the reporter.

Thanks,
Tim O'Keeffe
Online News Editor http://www.starnews.com
---

The Star has always been, in my opinion, Fair if not slanted in our favor. I think that this will get taken care of.
 
I shoot my Savage Mk II (.22lr) with a 4x scope to 100 metres (109 yards).

------------------
If the priority of the archive over witnes accounts is given up, history ceases to be a science and becomes an art.

http://www.ety.com/tell/why.html
 
I have seen this cycle before. The cops will get rifles and then there will be some civilians probably children killed by accident and the rifle - sub mgun - large cal pistol stuff will come to an end. Its too bad it always takes some deaths.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom B:
I have seen this cycle before. The cops will get rifles and then there will be some civilians probably children killed by accident and the rifle - sub mgun - large cal pistol stuff will come to an end. Its too bad it always takes some deaths.[/quote]

So what is your solution?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top