Eric of IN
New member
http://www.starnews.com/news/articles/0725_GUNS.html
Johnson deputies get long-range firepower
Carbines replace shotguns, raising a debate about which weapon is the most effective.
By Paul Bird
Indianapolis Star
July 25, 2000
Every road-patrol deputy in Johnson County now is toting a high-powered rifle, although the nation's top law enforcement agency and nearly all Indiana police departments still use shotguns as preferred weapons.
Johnson County Sheriff J.D. Richards replaced the 12-gauge Remington shotguns in patrol cars with Ruger Mini-14 semiautomatic rifles that are capable of killing a person from a mile -- or more -- away.
Weapons experts are divided on whether the switch is a good move. Some contend the rifles are too powerful -- their bullets travel about 2,900 feet a second -- to be used except in special circumstances. Others, including Richards, argue that the rifles are necessary to protect officers and that more agencies will adopt them as standard equipment.
In fact, firearms instructors from 20 police agencies in Indiana are learning this month how to use the powerful rifles.
But some officers on the street are reluctant to give up their shotguns for the long-range rifles. They point out that shotguns don't have to be precisely aimed; the rifles do.The weapons are carried by police officers in addition to their handguns.
Chief Jerry Barker of the Indianapolis Police Department said the use of the rifles, also called carbines, is growing more popular because of the frequency of moving gun battles. While the chief is not planning to get rid of the shotguns, he will consider allowing officers to carry their personal rifles on patrol.
"We have to be aware of the power of those weapons -- the damage it can do to others some distance away," Barker said.
Barker said shooting rampages, such as school shootings, raise new issues for police.
"We may look at some limited use to deal with those people who start walking down our streets or go into buildings killing people," Barker said. "We have to be prepared to act quickly, and there are times when we can't wait 45 minutes for a SWAT team to be assembled," he said.
Lt. Randy Davis, director of firearms programs at the Indiana Law Enforcement Training Academy at Plainfield, said he could think of only isolated incidents where police need long-range weapons.
Davis, who has trained more than 20,000 police officers to shoot safely, cited a Los Angeles shootout between police and two bank robbers wearing body armor and wielding automatic assault rifles.
In that 1997 shootout, police went into a local gun store for more powerful guns. The robbers wounded 16 police officers and civilians before they were shot to death.
Most shootouts involving police occur at close range and in low light, Davis said. While the rifle is more accurate, officers must have enough light. And rifle bullets travel much farther than shotgun pellets.
With a rifle, he said, "you have some inherent ballistics issues to deal with: not worrying about hitting something two miles away," Davis said.
"Shotguns are more point-and-shoot. The shotgun and handgun are standard issue by most agencies, and I would not want to take away options from my officers."
The academy began rifle training for firearms instructors from 20 police departments this month. Davis said the course was created because more departments are using or preparing to buy the long-range weapons.
A 12-gauge shotgun sprays out nine pellets about the size of a pea with one blast. The shot spreads out as it travels away from the muzzle and is fairly accurate and can be deadly up to 100 yards.
At close range, the pellets will penetrate walls and vehicles.
In contrast, the Mini-14 fires a single bullet slightly larger than a .22-caliber slug, but at super speeds -- about 2,900 feet per second. Accurately fired, the weapon is deadly for hundreds of yards. It can be loaded with five cartridges or with ammo clips that allow the rifle to fire 20 rounds as fast as the trigger is pulled.
The rifle ammunition used by Johnson County deputies is designed to fragment upon impact and stop quickly so it won't carry through homes or car doors.
Richards believes the pinpoint accuracy of the rifle is better suited for modern police work than a shotgun is.
"When you fire (a shotgun), there are nine bullets flying around, and I believe it is better for us to have total accuracy with just one bullet to worry about," he said.
Howard Williams, attorney for the Indiana Sheriff's Association, helped develop a carbine-on-patrol curriculum at the training academy for firearms instructors.
"I am a big believer in the carbine as an essential tool, and it is not as dangerous (as a shotgun) in some respects," he said. "I happen to like the shotgun, but deputies need as many options as possible, and they (rifles) are a good idea."
Williams said the rifle is not intended to turn road patrol officers into snipers, but to give them the ability to fight back at long range until SWAT teams arrive.
He also said once police officers adapt the rifle into their routine, they will be impressed.
"A shotgun blast into a block wall will just blow a hole in it," Williams said. "But . . . they can take the wall apart block by block" with the high-speed ammunition used in the rifle.
In Hamilton County, road patrol Deputy Rick Adams said he would not sacrifice the shotgun for a carbine.
"But, if it was in addition to the shotgun, yes, I think it would be a good idea to carry a rifle in the event something happens like these violent acts that have been occurring around the country," Adams said.
The deputy was quick to point out that Hamilton County has not experienced crimes that would require a rifle.
"But I think we should be proactive as opposed to waiting for something to happen that would require a rifle and not have one," Adams said. "On the other hand, I wouldn't want to give up the shotgun in a closed space situation. Nothing beats a shotgun there."
Carrying carbines on patrol is a common practice in Shelby County, said Lt. David Fisher. However, the department only issues 12-gauge shotguns and handguns to all road patrol deputies.
"Deputies can carry rifles if they have been through a training course by our firearms instructor," he said. "The department issues a few, but most are owned by individuals."
Fisher said the rifle is necessary in rural settings.
"A suspect could be armed with a .22-caliber rifle, and if all you had was a shotgun, you'd be outgunned because he would have the advantage of a weapon with a longer range."
Recently, Shelby County deputies joined in a manhunt for an armed suspect through open fields.
"Some deputies were armed with shotguns; others were carrying rifles," Fisher said. "It is like golf clubs -- you use what you are comfortable with. At close range, there's nothing better than a shotgun."
Johnson County Sheriff's Maj. Thomas Krukemeier, commander of the road patrol and SWAT team member, said the Mini-14 is right for the deputies.
"It is a better tool, more accurate and we have issued special cartridges for police use," Krukemeier said. "The deputy has better control of where the bullet is going."
Krukemeier said that at a recent firearms training school, he learned that many sheriff's departments throughout the state are turning to the carbine.
But, throughout the country, police agencies and trainers have not noticed a trend to remove shotguns from patrol cars.
The FBI continues to routinely train its agents with the shotgun, handgun and sub-machinegun, said Special Agent Kurt Crawford, an FBI headquarters spokesman at Quantico, Va.
Kim Bossey of the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Inc. said tactical or special teams are more likely to have rifles, and some officers carry their own rifles.
Some police departments issue high-powered rifles to supervisors on each shift to ensure the officers have enough firepower available, she said.
The Johnson County deputies must carry the Mini-14. Their shotguns have been sold.
Deputy Tony Meziere demonstrated the weapon for The Star. Mizere said he liked the rifle but preferred the shotgun.
"I will carry and use whatever they issue," he said.
Marion County Sheriff Jack Cottey said he isn't considering the rifle for road patrol deputies.
"It is just not practical and just too dangerous for us to use in an urban setting," Cottey said. "Those things can shoot through two or three houses and kill somebody 10 blocks away."
--------------------------------------------
Well? Which would you rather have? I can see having the rifles in addition to the shotguns, but in a county that's turning into one big subdivision, I think giving up the shotgun is a bad idea.
Eric
------------------
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Johnson deputies get long-range firepower
Carbines replace shotguns, raising a debate about which weapon is the most effective.
By Paul Bird
Indianapolis Star
July 25, 2000
Every road-patrol deputy in Johnson County now is toting a high-powered rifle, although the nation's top law enforcement agency and nearly all Indiana police departments still use shotguns as preferred weapons.
Johnson County Sheriff J.D. Richards replaced the 12-gauge Remington shotguns in patrol cars with Ruger Mini-14 semiautomatic rifles that are capable of killing a person from a mile -- or more -- away.
Weapons experts are divided on whether the switch is a good move. Some contend the rifles are too powerful -- their bullets travel about 2,900 feet a second -- to be used except in special circumstances. Others, including Richards, argue that the rifles are necessary to protect officers and that more agencies will adopt them as standard equipment.
In fact, firearms instructors from 20 police agencies in Indiana are learning this month how to use the powerful rifles.
But some officers on the street are reluctant to give up their shotguns for the long-range rifles. They point out that shotguns don't have to be precisely aimed; the rifles do.The weapons are carried by police officers in addition to their handguns.
Chief Jerry Barker of the Indianapolis Police Department said the use of the rifles, also called carbines, is growing more popular because of the frequency of moving gun battles. While the chief is not planning to get rid of the shotguns, he will consider allowing officers to carry their personal rifles on patrol.
"We have to be aware of the power of those weapons -- the damage it can do to others some distance away," Barker said.
Barker said shooting rampages, such as school shootings, raise new issues for police.
"We may look at some limited use to deal with those people who start walking down our streets or go into buildings killing people," Barker said. "We have to be prepared to act quickly, and there are times when we can't wait 45 minutes for a SWAT team to be assembled," he said.
Lt. Randy Davis, director of firearms programs at the Indiana Law Enforcement Training Academy at Plainfield, said he could think of only isolated incidents where police need long-range weapons.
Davis, who has trained more than 20,000 police officers to shoot safely, cited a Los Angeles shootout between police and two bank robbers wearing body armor and wielding automatic assault rifles.
In that 1997 shootout, police went into a local gun store for more powerful guns. The robbers wounded 16 police officers and civilians before they were shot to death.
Most shootouts involving police occur at close range and in low light, Davis said. While the rifle is more accurate, officers must have enough light. And rifle bullets travel much farther than shotgun pellets.
With a rifle, he said, "you have some inherent ballistics issues to deal with: not worrying about hitting something two miles away," Davis said.
"Shotguns are more point-and-shoot. The shotgun and handgun are standard issue by most agencies, and I would not want to take away options from my officers."
The academy began rifle training for firearms instructors from 20 police departments this month. Davis said the course was created because more departments are using or preparing to buy the long-range weapons.
A 12-gauge shotgun sprays out nine pellets about the size of a pea with one blast. The shot spreads out as it travels away from the muzzle and is fairly accurate and can be deadly up to 100 yards.
At close range, the pellets will penetrate walls and vehicles.
In contrast, the Mini-14 fires a single bullet slightly larger than a .22-caliber slug, but at super speeds -- about 2,900 feet per second. Accurately fired, the weapon is deadly for hundreds of yards. It can be loaded with five cartridges or with ammo clips that allow the rifle to fire 20 rounds as fast as the trigger is pulled.
The rifle ammunition used by Johnson County deputies is designed to fragment upon impact and stop quickly so it won't carry through homes or car doors.
Richards believes the pinpoint accuracy of the rifle is better suited for modern police work than a shotgun is.
"When you fire (a shotgun), there are nine bullets flying around, and I believe it is better for us to have total accuracy with just one bullet to worry about," he said.
Howard Williams, attorney for the Indiana Sheriff's Association, helped develop a carbine-on-patrol curriculum at the training academy for firearms instructors.
"I am a big believer in the carbine as an essential tool, and it is not as dangerous (as a shotgun) in some respects," he said. "I happen to like the shotgun, but deputies need as many options as possible, and they (rifles) are a good idea."
Williams said the rifle is not intended to turn road patrol officers into snipers, but to give them the ability to fight back at long range until SWAT teams arrive.
He also said once police officers adapt the rifle into their routine, they will be impressed.
"A shotgun blast into a block wall will just blow a hole in it," Williams said. "But . . . they can take the wall apart block by block" with the high-speed ammunition used in the rifle.
In Hamilton County, road patrol Deputy Rick Adams said he would not sacrifice the shotgun for a carbine.
"But, if it was in addition to the shotgun, yes, I think it would be a good idea to carry a rifle in the event something happens like these violent acts that have been occurring around the country," Adams said.
The deputy was quick to point out that Hamilton County has not experienced crimes that would require a rifle.
"But I think we should be proactive as opposed to waiting for something to happen that would require a rifle and not have one," Adams said. "On the other hand, I wouldn't want to give up the shotgun in a closed space situation. Nothing beats a shotgun there."
Carrying carbines on patrol is a common practice in Shelby County, said Lt. David Fisher. However, the department only issues 12-gauge shotguns and handguns to all road patrol deputies.
"Deputies can carry rifles if they have been through a training course by our firearms instructor," he said. "The department issues a few, but most are owned by individuals."
Fisher said the rifle is necessary in rural settings.
"A suspect could be armed with a .22-caliber rifle, and if all you had was a shotgun, you'd be outgunned because he would have the advantage of a weapon with a longer range."
Recently, Shelby County deputies joined in a manhunt for an armed suspect through open fields.
"Some deputies were armed with shotguns; others were carrying rifles," Fisher said. "It is like golf clubs -- you use what you are comfortable with. At close range, there's nothing better than a shotgun."
Johnson County Sheriff's Maj. Thomas Krukemeier, commander of the road patrol and SWAT team member, said the Mini-14 is right for the deputies.
"It is a better tool, more accurate and we have issued special cartridges for police use," Krukemeier said. "The deputy has better control of where the bullet is going."
Krukemeier said that at a recent firearms training school, he learned that many sheriff's departments throughout the state are turning to the carbine.
But, throughout the country, police agencies and trainers have not noticed a trend to remove shotguns from patrol cars.
The FBI continues to routinely train its agents with the shotgun, handgun and sub-machinegun, said Special Agent Kurt Crawford, an FBI headquarters spokesman at Quantico, Va.
Kim Bossey of the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Inc. said tactical or special teams are more likely to have rifles, and some officers carry their own rifles.
Some police departments issue high-powered rifles to supervisors on each shift to ensure the officers have enough firepower available, she said.
The Johnson County deputies must carry the Mini-14. Their shotguns have been sold.
Deputy Tony Meziere demonstrated the weapon for The Star. Mizere said he liked the rifle but preferred the shotgun.
"I will carry and use whatever they issue," he said.
Marion County Sheriff Jack Cottey said he isn't considering the rifle for road patrol deputies.
"It is just not practical and just too dangerous for us to use in an urban setting," Cottey said. "Those things can shoot through two or three houses and kill somebody 10 blocks away."
--------------------------------------------
Well? Which would you rather have? I can see having the rifles in addition to the shotguns, but in a county that's turning into one big subdivision, I think giving up the shotgun is a bad idea.
Eric
------------------
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
