Riding my bicycle, dog charges me, I'm armed...

[g.willikers]

In the beginning of the video there's no obvious way to know what the dog is doing.
It probably didn't know, either.
Any more than knowing if that car coming down the cross street is going to stop for the red light.
That cat was the biggest surprise.
Doubt if the presence of a firearm would have been as helpful as that cat, though.
The dog was all over the poor kid.
Might have to go out and get me an attack cat.
Here's another link to the video, in case the other one doesn't work.
http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/14/cat-saves-boy-dog-attack-video/

 

[Pahoo]

Sharing your dog !!!

OP, the fact that you were considering shooting a dog that was chasing you on your bike tells me you might need a little more familiarization with dogs.

I'm not the OP but this is bull. I can tell the difference between a poisonous snake and harmless one. I give both plenty of space. Now I'm suppose know what dogs will bite from those who won't. How about dog owners being more familiar with the laws and their dog's bad habits. Most of the time, the problem is with the owners who feel the need to share their dog with us, on any level.
My dog will not chase you or keep you up at night or even crap in your yard. In part, that makes me a good and responsible neighbor. .....

Be Safe !!!

 

[bbqbob51]

OP, the fact that you were considering shooting a dog that was chasing you on your bike tells me you might need a little more familiarization with dogs.

Theo, This dog didn't just chase me. He charged me from the side and I heard his teeth snapping at my foot. It didn't bark a warning, just snarled and went after me and came within a few inches of me. Like I said, I was going 18-20 MPH and don't really know if he just missed me or it was his way of warning me but I do know I should be able to defend myself if any creature (2 or 4 legged) if they mean me harm. It's not my responsibility to become some kind of dog whisperer to keep myself safe because of an irresponsible dog owner.
Why I originally started this thread is I really don't want to have to shoot a dog but was looking for feedback and experiences other have had and how they handled it.

 

[green_MTman]

i once get lost in the woods during the 05 vermont bear season and i ended up in someones yard and i asked a woman on her porch for directions back to green river rd.
she gave me directions and was on my way.but her pit bull followed me.i knew the dog was no match for my .308 so i felt no fear.i said in a authoritative voice go dog and the dog left.

i must admitt that without the rifle i would have ran to a tree and climbed.it was knowing i would not be attacked that helped me be so relaxed and asertive with pit bull.

99% of the time if you command the dog to leave asertively,the dog or animal with leave.

 

[g.willikers]

Snakes are easy to tell apart.
Reptiles pretty much all behave as their species is designed.
The dangerous ones are always dangerous and the benign ones are always benign.
Dogs act like individuals, no two exactly alike, whatever the species of dog.
No way to actually tell if that mutt running at you wants to play or bite.
It would be a shame if dogs were treated like snakes, though.

 

[besafe2]

Pax no one likes dogs more than me, but if it's me or the dog it's the dog. I will defend early.

 

[Theohazard]

Beautiful, and even more wolf looking than mine was.
Or was I his?

Thanks! Yeah, she gets a lot of attention when I take her out. Most of it positive, but there are still some people who will cross the street when they see us coming. Which I find hilarious; if they came up to her she'd lick their hands and flop on her back for belly rubs.

For those who understand dog body language, I have been watching this video since it came out a couple of weeks ago. Have to say that I cannot figure out what the dog is thinking. The dog's body language, to me, looks friendly and like he wants to play... Right up until he grabs ahold of the kid and tears into his leg.

I'm not a profession dog trainer and it's hard to tell from the video, but I think it's a form of animal aggression. Dogs have been bred from the very beginning to be in tune with humans, that's the biggest thing that sets them apart from wolves (or any other animal; dogs are even smarter than chimps when it comes to understanding simple cues from people). That said, I don't think the dog in the video saw that kid as a human: Remember what I said about how some dogs don't see people on bicycles as people, but instead as weird, wheeled animals? I think this is the same thing: This dog probably isn't used to kids to begin with, and since the kid is riding a tricycle it's even worse.

What do you think? Is it better to err by defending yourself early, and perhaps offending the neighbor in a completely unfixable way? Or better to risk a mauling by waiting to see what is going on?

It depends. By myself, I'm confident I can assert enough authority to make almost any aggressive dog back down without resorting to weapons. But I have a 6-month-old daughter who will be walking soon, and that's a different thing altogether; some dogs don't see kids as people, but instead as some kind of small animal. Also, in the unlikely event that I get attacked by a dog, it's even more unlikely that the dog will inflict any serious damage before I can stop the attack. But my kid is different: an unbalanced, aggressive dog could inflict a lot of damage very quickly.

Luckily, I have a very good solution to this: My dog pictured above. She might be sweet, but she doesn't take crap from aggressive dogs and she's protective of my daughter. She's been attacked by big, aggressive dogs before and she's come out on top. So my dog adds an extra layer of security when I'm out with my daughter. And in my house and my yard my daughter is even more protected: I have another dog who's not great with other dogs but excellent with my daughter. If an aggressive dog (or other animal) got into my yard and managed to go after my daughter, my two dogs would take care of it (or at least delay it until I could respond).

 

[Theohazard]

OP, the fact that you were considering shooting a dog that was chasing you on your bike tells me you might need a little more familiarization with dogs.

I'm not the OP but this is bull. I can tell the difference between a poisonous snake and harmless one. I give both plenty of space. Now I'm suppose know what dogs will bite from those who won't. How about dog owners being more familiar with the laws and their dog's bad habits. Most of the time, the problems is with the owners who feel the need to share their dog with us, on any level.

It's not bull at all: Dogs often chase bicycles because they don't see a person on a bike as a human but instead as an animal to be chased. If you get off the bike and square off with the dog authoritatively, and make a firm, commanding sound (but not frantic or upset-sounding), 99.99% of dogs won't attack.

Now, there's nothing wrong with being armed (gun, pepper spray, etc.) just in case, but a weapon usually just gives a person the confidence to deal with aggressive dogs in an effective, non-violent manner. See green_MTman's post above, post #24: His gun gave him confidence and the dog sensed that and backed off.

But I agree that dog owners need to be more responsible. Just because a person doesn't know how to deal with aggressive dogs, it doesn't mean it's their responsibility to do so: The responsibility lies with the dog owner who let the dog off-leash in the first place.

 

[hard3]

A spray bottle with household ammonia is a good deterrent. spray near their nose and it will turn them around. I had a paper route as a kid and I carried a squirt gun with ammonia every day . Every time I used it , it changed their mind about trying to bite me. And it doesn't cost $15 every time you spray it.

 

[Theohazard]

It's not my responsibility to become some kind of dog whisperer to keep myself safe because of an irresponsible dog owner.

I agree 100%. I was simply pointing out that there are better ways to deal with that situation than shooting the dog. But of course the responsibility lies with the irresponsible owner who let their dog chase you in the first place.

 

[Jo6pak]

This has happened to me more times than I can remember.

This is my strategy.
The comment about making the dog "see" you as human is a good one.

1st- determine the angle the pooch is taking, more often than not it is possible to just crank up and outrun the dog. They won't chase more than a few dozen yards usually.

If that is not possible, Stop. Dismount and hold the bike out, using it as a shield between you and the dog, stand tall, stamp your foot and YELL at the pooch.
The dog will stop and keep it's distance when challenged. Slowly back away until the owner shows up, or often once you are away from it's "territory" the dog will not pursue.
It is been my experience that this works 90% of the time.
One very few occasions I have had to strike the dog (sharply, but not violently)with a wheel, which has always sent them into retreat.

 

[Pond James Pond]

It is wholly the responsibility of the owner to ensure their dog, when not on their own property, does not cause a mess, nuisance or danger to the public.

The OP doesn't sound like he wanted to play with the dog. The OP could had fallen off, or swerved away in shock into oncoming traffic, not to mention getting bitten. Would any of those be the OP's fault? I personally don't think so.

It is not up to members of the public to learn how to correctly interpret dog behaviour.

As a dog owner, I would recommend they do but by no means are they obliged to get comfortable with dogs: rather it is my job to ensure my dogs don't give anyone cause to feel uncomfortable with dogs.

I love dogs. Mine are family members rather than pets and I certainly don't want to shoot someone else's.
But plausibly threaten my child, wife, dogs or myself and any aggressive dogs is going to get a face full of mace in short order.

 

[TailGator]

I have been a veterinarian for over 30 years. I have never treated a dog that was hit by a car and was owned by someone who took responsibility for letting the dog get in the road; it was always the driver's fault. If you shoot a dog, you are going to be blamed in the same way that the owners blame drivers and the relatives of armed robbers and burglars blame people who defend themselves. You may be right and still be vilified personally and in the press, you may be threatened, you may be sued and have the expense of defending yourself, just as those things happen in a defensive shooting of a human.

You can say that people are responsible for their dogs and I would agree fully and enthusiastically, but the same kind of mentality that makes excuses for all the other ways that they disrespect others sees no reason that they should take responsibility for their dogs.

 

[1-DAB]

well put tailgator. and a factor in why i killed an innocent rock and not a vicious dog yesterday. just didn't want to deal with all the paperwork and hurt feelings if i didn't have to.

 

[Sabrewolfe]

I'm going to put another vote out for pepper spray. Other than as a means of absolute last resort, I don't even consider my gun as a response to an aggressive dog. Then again, I don't blame the dog for it's bad behavior: I blame the owners. 99+% of attitude/behavioral problems are a result of poor handling by the owner. And in the rare cases where the issue is with the animal, the owner should be responsible enough to have the poor critter euthanized.

 

[GLK]

FWIW I have used the Kimber branded two shot over & under pepper blaster several times, once on an idiot owner of an attacking dog and three times on charging dogs that were the victims of idiot owners. It is my go to defense when ever I am walking my two Airedales. People often ask me why I don't simply allow my dogs to handle business, and I then have to explain to them that even if they do "win" the fight why take any chance of them being injured in any way.

What I like most about this product is that it is not an aerosol powered device, it actually uses a pyrotechnic charge for each barrel. It even comes with a warning about being too close to the assailant when discharging, stating IIRC that within less than two feet it may cause permanent eye damage(which I personally consider a plus if the assailant is a human trying to harm me or mine)and the possibility of blow back cross contamination. I have used it at 5-10 feet distances and under what I considered a pretty strong headwinds and I did not not get any airborne cross contamination.

A direct face hit at approx 5 feet made a huge raging Rottweiler nearly turn inside out and run away while doing face plants and yelping like it had been set afire. A direct face hit at approx 10 feet caused the idiot owner of said huge raging Rottweiler to behave in much the same manner except instead of yelping like he was afire and running away, he was rolling on the street vomiting heaving choking snotting himself and attempting to make some reference to my mother and how he was going to kill me. I told him I completely understood picked up his Louisville Slugger and while briskly walking away with my Airedales explained to him that he would not be killing me today or with this bat.

As to people who say their dogs don't bite and are friendly. I say how am I supposed to know that when your dog is charging me while I am walking two large protective tough as nails dogs and your dogs seem intent on attacking me or my dogs. If your dog is off leash and off your property you are 100% in the wrong and the outcome good or bad is 100% your responsibility.

 

[Pahoo]

Ban Bicycles !!

99.99% of dogs won't attack.

Sorry, If I'm not warm and fuzzy on that one ......

As to people who say their dogs don't bite and are friendly. I say how am I supposed to know that when your dog is charging me while I am walking two large protective tough as nails dogs and your dogs seem intent on attacking me or my dogs. If your dog is off leash and off your property you are 100% in the wrong and the outcome good or bad is 100% your responsibility.

Totally agree but might change when they pass a ban on riding bicycles cause leash laws don't work. Dogs got to be dogs and can't help themselves. ...
Perhaps the theory is that you can't fix a dead dog but you just might be able to fix a mauled kid. As stated earlier,, I got mauled as a kid and I turned out okay. .....

Be Safe !!!

 

[Theohazard]

99.99% of dogs won't attack.

Sorry, If I'm not warm and fuzzy on that one ......

Ha, you don't like those odds?

But you're right, every once in a while there are dogs that will still attack no matter how good you are at handling them. That's an exceedingly rare situation, but it does happen. That's why it's always good to have some kind of weapon as back-up.

I'm from DC where self-defense is illegal. You can't carry any kind of weapon, not even pepper spray. So joggers and walkers often carry sticks. So far, carrying a stick isn't illegal there, and a stick does a decent job at fending off an aggressive dog.

 

[Sabrewolfe]

…joggers and walkers often carry sticks. So far, carrying a stick isn't illegal there, and a stick does a decent job at fending off an aggressive dog.

BubbaStik FtW. I walk with a cane because of chronic pain issues and I can tell you, these are great. Comfortable to walk with, made in the U.S.A., and built like tanks. Cold Steel's City Stick isn't bad, either, but it's nowhere near as classy and it costs twice as much.

 

[colbad]

I think from your opening statement that you wisely recognize the issues involving a gun in the scenario. Having shot a few dogs in the attack mode, you will be surprised how hard it actually is to get a good contained shot on an attacking dog, even if it is practiced with a full size service handgun. Never forget that you own every shot fired and that every shot eventually lands some place. My agency will opt for a shotgun (and/or fire extinguisher) when a dog shoot is anticipated for a one shot hit. Normally the sound alone is highly effective. Had the animal had hold of you, I would not have hesitated for a contact shot anyplace on the body.

As you pointed out, you were upset and probably did not have the most stable shooting platform (especially with a LCP) which would have resulted in some misses. I have broken a few bike pumps on the heads of dogs while riding. What I have found most effective is a pipe (or expandable baton in my back carry pocket...tends to rust from sweat if not wiped down) the size of a bike pump carried where the pump goes. Other riders have told me that an air horn also works well, but I like my pipe.....which I have threatened to also use on the irresponsible owner who took issue with me denting my pipe on his animal's head