Revolvers that shoot shotgun shells

With the Federal personal defense 3" magnum buckshots with 5 or so 000 buckshots in them, stopping power is devastating and they pattern well at 10 yards or less. With each shot, that's like getting hit in the chest 5 times with James Bond's Walther PPK... yeah it's pretty darn effective IMHO.
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ok so now its a 3" judge?
So might aswell bump the 9mm up to +P or +P+.

So that fires 5 massive 50 to 60 grn rounds of lead? Because .32acp is renown as being such an effective modern caliber. And because james bond makes it so worth it. 5 lead balls vs a modern SD hollow point... what was i thinking...
Arguing that it can shoot .45 Colt is also void because if u want to do that you are better off getting a revolver that shots .45 colt with a longer barrel and the same overall length.

Stopping power is devastating huh? So me numbers facts. I can write stuff that makes it sound cool too. But opinions mean nothing.

Not being an owner means nothing as well you don't need to own something to have knowledge of it. Just because you own a car doesn't mean you can fix it. I dont own one because I have no reason to own it. If I wanted one I would get one. But I don't.

I never said it shouldn't exist or you shouldn't own one or use one. I simply said that there are guns that can out perform it on every level.
 
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I watched a hickok45 video wherein he shoots the Judge with .45 Colt cartridges

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

at a gong at 18 yards with a 3" barrel. I shoots very high but, in his estimation, "fairly accurately" insofar as grouping.

There is a very long leade insofar as the distance between the bullet and the forcing cone of the barrel.

In a previous thread I was told that reaming through a Ruger SP101 cylinder with a .357 Max reamer would ruin the gun's accuracy, and possibly be dangerous, using .38 Spl +P cartridges

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5869522#post5869522

particularly posts #'s 3, 10, & 18.

Enlighten me as to the difference..
 
So me numbers facts.
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Um... what? :confused:

Also, 000 buckshot is .360 in caliber and weighs 70 grains... and there are 5 of them per shell and penetration is well above 12 inches, yeah that's pretty much going to leave a mark. The fact that the handgun fires five individual pellets, each with it's own chance to hit a vital organ, makes the likelyhood of a one shot stop far better than with a handgun that fires only one projectile per trigger pull. The same reason why a full size shotgun has such a reputation as a fight stopper with buckshot. You have an instant 500% greater chance of hitting the vitals than say a .38 special that has only one chance.

So yes, stopping power indeed.
 
You have an instant 500% greater chance of hitting the vitals than say a .38 special that has only one chance.
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I would say that the relatively lightweight round ball is the least likely bullet to stay on course through tissue, and not well noted for penetrating as deeply as heavier more pointed or cylindrical bullets.

And while it may be 5 balls, its still only one SHOT, and I don't think the slight spread of the shot inside a room can be counted on to make up for a bad SHOT.

No one is saying they won't work for self defense. What we're saying is that to get one FOR THAT is foolish. There are better choices than a 5 shot revolver firing a 3" long shell for that.
 
Actual full-size shot guns also have barrels greater the 3 inches. Comparing .410 to 12 or 20ga isnt even close to the same thing.

Also Jhp expand to almost twice their size. upon impact. so. that '.38' is closing on .50 diameter and has almost 3 times the mass.

And the fact that the gun needs to have ammo made specifically for it already proves the original idea had short comings. I don't need to buy special .45 acp just because i plan to shoot it in a 1911 do i?

Ill give you the 12 in pen I just doubled checked the 3" loads made for the judge ok those might work some still fell short and 7 to 9 inches though.

Im pretty sure you are overestimating its effectiveness but honestly it doesn't concern me @ all if you feel that its good enough then thats fine. I like my SD rounds to be able to penetrate ductwork and light barriers.:rolleyes:
 
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Gee, please instruct us how a standard 12 gauge 00 load is like shooting nine .32 caliber bullets. We all know how wimpy and ineffective it is...

Four pellets of 000 buckshot (.36 caliber) is 44% of a 12 gauge nine pellet 00 (.33 caliber) shotshell. Five pellets is 55%.

Buckshot, be it from a .410 or 12 gauge shotshell, simply pokes a hole in soft tissues. Four or five pellets increases the probability of poking a hole in tissues that are critical to immediate survival. The surface area of four or five 000 pellets is greater than a single expanded JHP handgun bullet which translates into greater wound trauma.
 
I load shot rounds for .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .38 Special and .38 S&W.
I also have used the shot capsuls with rice and walnut tumbling media. I have killed a rattlesnake with standard .38 Special shot shells and the famil had a packrat in our cabin. One of my .38 S&W walnut shot loads dispatched the packrat with no danger to shooting a hole in something other then the packrat.
 
This topic always seems to bring out a lot of mockery and sarcasm. But as one who is serious about keeping a 2 1/2" cylinder Judge model, I will add some points of my understanding.

1) #4 buck gives the best pattern. Do not mistake this for regular #4 shot. It doesn't help that Federal labels their #4 shot as personal defense.

2) The gun's capability to shoot 45 Colt is incidental rather than primary. It's a shotgun.

3) Don't buy rifled slugs for it, just regular slugs. The barrel is rifled.

4) 410 is run with the same powders as 44 Magnum. Best step out of the way.
 
The gun's capability to shoot 45 Colt is incidental rather than primary. It's a shotgun.
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Not according to the BATFE. Its NOT a shotgun. It is .45 caliber revolver, firing subcaliber (.41) shotshells along with standard .45 caliber ammo.
(the fact that you can choose to use it exclusively with .410 shells is incidental. its not a .410 revolver!)

Don't buy rifled slugs for it, just regular slugs. The barrel is rifled.
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I don't know if anyone is making any "non-rifled" slugs for the .410. Either way, its doesn't matter. "Rifled slugs" do not spin. The "rifling" does not impart spin to the slug, although it looks like it would. This is another of the great shotgun myths. They are called rifled slugs because they look like they passed through a rifled bore. That's all. They don't spin (in a smoothbore). What the "rifling" does on a "rifled slug" is allow the slug to squeeze through any choke without damage to the gun. Firing slugs from a rifled barrel (with no choke), it makes no difference if the slug is a "rifled slug" or not.

410 is run with the same powders as 44 Magnum. Best step out of the way.
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While SOME of the powders are usable in both rounds, the .410 is loaded to, I believe, about half (maybe less) of the pressure of the .44 Mag. The same gasoline runs a mini bike and a 3/4 ton pickup truck, and while I wouldn't stand in front of either, its not a good comparison just because you can use the same "fuel".

I just checked, and found SAAMI specs for pressure for the 2.5" .410 is 12,500psi and for the 3", 13,500psi. That is less than the .38 Special and even less than the .45ACP. So, tell me how a low pressure .41 caliber round, operating from a pistol length barrel suddenly becomes a virtual self defense powerhouse because it is a shotgun round???? The only answer I can see is "advertising".

Again, let me point out that there is nothing wrong with the .410. I'm rather fond of it, in my Contender, or in a shotgun. But it is important to know just what the .410 is, and what it is NOT.
 
I am a bit confused now.

There another thread here about the importance of penetration in self defense situation. I agree with that.

From what I understand ballistic gel is used as a yardstick to measure bullet penetration. Twelve inches is referred to as the minimum acceptable. I understand that.

I watched a Utube video showing Judge being fired. It was fired into ballistic gel. The ammo was some Federal load that was designed for the Judge. It contained four pellets. The four projectiles penetrated 18 to 21 inches of the gel.

Now there are folks saying the .410 Judge isn't a viable self defense gun.

That is why I am confused.
 
I think that it is with the right loads. The Federal buckshot loads made for the .410 handguns is effective. Anyone that says otherwise needs to go back to gun school.

Now something like a .410 dove load... yeah not very effective LOL! :D

But the tailor-made .410 handgun defense loads are simply going to ruin anyone's day. No, they don't hit like a 12 gauge but they are still plenty effective. Now are they more effective than say a .45 ACP JHP round? That's up for debate, but within 10 yards or so the .410 handguns are powerful and effective with the right load.
 
Now there are folks saying the .410 Judge isn't a viable self defense gun.

That is why I am confused.
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Don't be confused. The facts you researched are correct. The Judge haters do so because it is made by Taurus. Had S&W introduced the Governor first, to them it would have been one of the best SD innovations in history. But they are now forced to deny that they would have said it, and double down on the hatred of the format because they hate the original maker who made it popular.
 
ammo was some Federal load that was designed for the Judge.
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I won't argue that recently developed loads for "defense" in the .410 aren't effective, or useful. I'm sure they are a significant improvement over traditional .410 loads in many cases.

And being made by Taurus (or S&W) has nothing to do with it, for me. I'm not against the idea of a .45Colt/.410 revolver, other than I don't see the point. What I object to is the marketing the .410 in a revolver as a "good" choice for personal defense. Acceptable, will work, etc., is not the same as "good" or "best choice".

With lots and lots of people (mostly those who favor auto pistol) constantly harping on how 6 shots from a revolver isn't enough (at least to suit them),, going to a large bulky 5 shot revolver AS A DEFENSE GUN makes little sense to me.

When you come down to it, other than being able to fire multiple projectiles from the same shell casing, there is nothing the .410 does, or can do that is not well eclipsed by the .45 Colt round, in its standard loadings.

If you have chosen a Judge, or a Governator or what ever, for any reason other than personal defense, that's fine. If you have one of any of those reasons and have to rely on it for defense, that's fine too, .45 Colt ammo will serve you well, and the defense loads in .410 ought to. But if you are looking at getting one as a primary defensive handgun, I think you ought to look at something else, even (gasp :eek:) a 9mm...
 
Agree with Tailgate... Most people regard them as novelty guns. Nothing wrong with owning one as long as you don't think of it as an end-all cure-all. your over thinking 44AMP
 
Oohhhhhhhh. Now I understand post #2. Lol.
OK, so to sum everything up and answer my original questions, yes it has substantial recoil, and it's best used as a snake gun. Would that be the bottom line?

Mike
 
Well the Judge is a dandy snaker thats for sure, good for no legged critters I'm here to tell ya... but as far as critters with two legs?

It's powerful and will work at close range, but you're a five shooter when you could have an 8 shooter S&W .357 or an automatic for the same size and weight.

One could do hardly better for a snaker but for a defense gun, not the best IMHO... but also beats throwing rocks.
 
Actually if each of your rounds contain four projectiles, you could launch twenty objects at your adversary before having to reload. That is more projectiles than most semi auto pistols, let alone "regular" revolvers. Again, if each of those projectiles penetrate 18 or more inches, then it would be logical to conclude some damage will be done.

I don't own a Judge. I haven't even fired one. I won't buy one because I think they are ugly and unweilding.
 
It's powerful and will work at close range, but you're a five shooter
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The way I load my Poly it is a very quick 8 shot 380. 2x4 36 caliber projectiles with two quick pulls of the trigger AND, a three shot 45 Colt revolver. So one troubleshooter, or two "guns" of differing calibers having a total of 11 projectiles to fire.
 
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