Revolvers Still good Military/police sidearms?
- Thread starter SPUSCG
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Nothing compliments a revolver like a mustache and aviator sun glasses... Still a good option for Police officers, but I would think not so much for military. Capacity is a big issue.
I'm not saying capacity isn't important for LEO's ... maybe just slightly more important for military personel. If I was in a war zone 24/7 I would have to chose a high cap semi-auto over a revolver.
I'm not saying capacity isn't important for LEO's ... maybe just slightly more important for military personel. If I was in a war zone 24/7 I would have to chose a high cap semi-auto over a revolver.
There's nothing wrong with the revolver for police work.
Certainly there are those who will complain about the capacity issue and having to face some thug armed with the ubiquitous Glock 19 or Beretta 92. But when you only have six (or up to 8) rounds, you tend to practice accuracy over speed. And there is less tendency to spray & pray.
I'd seen nothing wrong with an officer electing to carry a wheelgun that he can qualify with or shoot better than the issue sidearm. By the same token, certain cities may be better off arming officers with bottom feeders due to the number and types of shootings that occur.
As a military sidearm, the revolver is best left to light duty applications. Security police duties and investigator duties, where the operator is unlikely to engage large numbers of hostiles as a matter of course.
A local agency had their last wheelgun toting officer retire recently ('04) after 30 years of service. During the switch over to autos, he managed to get an agreement in writing that he could continue to carry a wheelgun. He managed to go 30 years using 4 S&W Model 19's - a pair of 4" and a pair of 2.5" guns. He shot better with them than any autos the agency used. The last chief tried to break the contract and force him to switch. He assigned him to crappy duty assignments and finally back to a field Sgt. at age 54. That backfired when reports from other officers indicated the local gang members feared that he was some "special" marksman to be carrying a wheelgun. Officers didn't correct that (au contraire, they built him up into a combination of Wyatt Earp, Hickock and Audie Murphy!
). He may get the last laugh on the chief though. He's planning to run for city council in 2010.
Certainly there are those who will complain about the capacity issue and having to face some thug armed with the ubiquitous Glock 19 or Beretta 92. But when you only have six (or up to 8) rounds, you tend to practice accuracy over speed. And there is less tendency to spray & pray.
I'd seen nothing wrong with an officer electing to carry a wheelgun that he can qualify with or shoot better than the issue sidearm. By the same token, certain cities may be better off arming officers with bottom feeders due to the number and types of shootings that occur.
As a military sidearm, the revolver is best left to light duty applications. Security police duties and investigator duties, where the operator is unlikely to engage large numbers of hostiles as a matter of course.
A local agency had their last wheelgun toting officer retire recently ('04) after 30 years of service. During the switch over to autos, he managed to get an agreement in writing that he could continue to carry a wheelgun. He managed to go 30 years using 4 S&W Model 19's - a pair of 4" and a pair of 2.5" guns. He shot better with them than any autos the agency used. The last chief tried to break the contract and force him to switch. He assigned him to crappy duty assignments and finally back to a field Sgt. at age 54. That backfired when reports from other officers indicated the local gang members feared that he was some "special" marksman to be carrying a wheelgun. Officers didn't correct that (au contraire, they built him up into a combination of Wyatt Earp, Hickock and Audie Murphy!
). He may get the last laugh on the chief though. He's planning to run for city council in 2010.Probably not for military use any more, except if they were allowed personal choice in the matter and the situation was correct. Like for a backup arm, not some kind of primary special ops arm. In WW1 the 6 shot 45 revolver was seen as a reasonable sub for a 7 shot auto. .38 revolvers were used from at least WW2 till the 80's. Depends on your idea of what the purpose of it is. Last ditch defense weapon up close or low threat security. But even with the neatest gadgeted hit tech black pistols that you see in the mag ads, you are not gonna go up againt people with AK's if you can avoid it at all. So it is still last ditch defense for anything but perhaps some sort of special missions. Armored truck teams have revolvers around here. They are guarding a big crook magnet like a truck full of millions of dollars. Ironic, in the past they might have been armed with Thompsons or something.
C'mon. There's not likely to be a police agency or any military outfit that can answer or defend the use of a handgun in this caliber. And out to 600 yards... really. Who and why would anyone in any situation engage a human target 600 yards away-- with a handgun? When, why, how?
Soldiers are very hard on their firearms. I am a big fan of revolvers, but served fourteen years in the Army. I saw how those weapons got used and they got used hard. Revolvers might not do so well under those conditions.
I've been a cop for over eight years and don't get used like a military firearm. That includes being dunked in rivers, laying in the mud for hours or banging around in the back of an APC or truck. Revolvers are better suited for police work. A cop's gun spends time in holsters and recieve more protection from the elements. It's been my understanding that revolvers didn't fare so well in the mud and slop of the WW1 trenches in Northern France.
Yes I am familiar with the Webley and the Colt SAA by the way. Dosen't change my opinion. Cheers.
I've been a cop for over eight years and don't get used like a military firearm. That includes being dunked in rivers, laying in the mud for hours or banging around in the back of an APC or truck. Revolvers are better suited for police work. A cop's gun spends time in holsters and recieve more protection from the elements. It's been my understanding that revolvers didn't fare so well in the mud and slop of the WW1 trenches in Northern France.
Yes I am familiar with the Webley and the Colt SAA by the way. Dosen't change my opinion. Cheers.
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No, they're not. They can be very fast but they're never going to be as fast as a mag change given the same level of practice with both.
In other words, there are some really good revolver shooters who can reload a revolver as fast or maybe even faster than your or I can change a mag, but if you put them up against auto shooters who have comparable skill levels to theirs they're going to lose every time.
And that's using moonclips loaded with bullets having a roundnose profile to facilitate loading--if you go to a more aggressive hollowpoint configuration, the difference in speed will be more pronounced.
Capacity of the new 8 shot revos is comparable to that of a single stack .45ACP so it's hard to make a point in that regard.
The main issue I see is that revolvers aren't shaped as nicely to carry. That issue only gets worse with the "high-capacity" revolvers, and is multiplied by the less convenient shape of reloads in moonclips or speedloaders.
+1 JohnKSa
Plus I will also add that there is absolutely no revolver out there that has as good a trigger as a mediocre 1911. Even a Python has to take a back seat to the 1911, . . . trigger wise.
And trigger "goodness" equates to accuracy, . . . plain and simple.
May God bless,
Dwight
Plus I will also add that there is absolutely no revolver out there that has as good a trigger as a mediocre 1911. Even a Python has to take a back seat to the 1911, . . . trigger wise.
And trigger "goodness" equates to accuracy, . . . plain and simple.
May God bless,
Dwight
I voted "good for civilian use but not military/police". In 1968, after my first Vietnam cruise flying off carriers, I decided that the issue S&W .38sp Victory Model revolver was good only for firing tracers (that was the issue round) straight up while swallowing seawater by the gallon. I wanted lots of rounds of ammo that was available worldwide, and at that time the Hi Power was king of the road. I therefore went to Marine Corps Exchange, Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, and purchased a 9mm Browning Hi Power plus two spare magazines. That was my personal weapon for two more Vietnam flying cruises. It sat in my sock drawer, still loaded with Navy ball, until I became interested in shooting again six years ago. I enjoy shooting it weekly at a local range, but I consider it a member of the family, not a SD/HD weapon. If there is an 'episode', I will not use it except in extremity, because I don't want it locked up in an evidence locker, to rust away.
Now, I am long since retired from the Navy. And over the last six years I have purchased two S&W revolvers -- the very handgun I turned my nose up at as a combat weapon back during Vietnam. Now, the revolver is just what I need for SD/HD. As I changed, my needs changed.
Cordially, Jack
Now, I am long since retired from the Navy. And over the last six years I have purchased two S&W revolvers -- the very handgun I turned my nose up at as a combat weapon back during Vietnam. Now, the revolver is just what I need for SD/HD. As I changed, my needs changed.
Cordially, Jack
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bufordtjustice
New member
I agree with the LE not military vote. I know of several cops that still use wheelguns and I still think they are effective for most policing situations.
Father Time
New member
Seems like people are forgeting that a sidearm in the military is like a knife to a cop. Its a last resort back-up weapon. That being said most military and police types I know would rather carry an semi-auto pistol.
kmrcstintn
New member
majority of civilians for SD/HD/car ~~ .38 spl +p revo's w/ .357 mag as alternative
civilians who are hunters needing more flexibility ~~ depends upon choice of caliber (.357 mag & .38 spl, .44 mag & .44 spl, .454 Casull & .45 Colt; .500 mag & .500 spl, .45 Colt hotrod loads & .45 Colt regular loads)
cowboy action shooters & cowboy gun fans ~~ .45 Colt, .44-40, or other 'period' specific caliber
personally, I am a civilian who hunts, recreationally shoots, has a CCW, and keeps a wheel gun or two loaded for HD/SD/car ~~ I have a .357 mag DA revolver, a .357 mag SA revolver, a .44 mag DA revolver, a .38 spl +p snubby revolver, and a .45 Colt SA 'cowboy' revolver; I load them with a mix of self defense, hunting, 'woods' defense, and practice ammo -- depends on what is with me at what time for what purpose
civilians who are hunters needing more flexibility ~~ depends upon choice of caliber (.357 mag & .38 spl, .44 mag & .44 spl, .454 Casull & .45 Colt; .500 mag & .500 spl, .45 Colt hotrod loads & .45 Colt regular loads)
cowboy action shooters & cowboy gun fans ~~ .45 Colt, .44-40, or other 'period' specific caliber
personally, I am a civilian who hunts, recreationally shoots, has a CCW, and keeps a wheel gun or two loaded for HD/SD/car ~~ I have a .357 mag DA revolver, a .357 mag SA revolver, a .44 mag DA revolver, a .38 spl +p snubby revolver, and a .45 Colt SA 'cowboy' revolver; I load them with a mix of self defense, hunting, 'woods' defense, and practice ammo -- depends on what is with me at what time for what purpose
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Still a viable law enforcement tool. It's been documented that when capacity increased, rounds expelled in gunfights also increased with hit ratio remaining the same or even decreasing. When limited to six in the cylinder, officers tend to "make em count". Also cops carry often and use rarely, some qualifying biannually with no additional practice. So simple function without those malfunction drills is a plus.
The Great Mahoo
New member
Agreed, but I think anyone should. One should be able to choose the weapon they have the most faith in. For some, that's a wheel gun.shortwave said:
There are some environments that a revolver may not hold up so well in, and it may not be the best for certain situations or duties, but it shouldn't eliminate them as a whole. One must simply consider what they expect and need of the firearm, what could happen to it in the course of what they are doing, and decide if it will work for them.
The biggest problem I see, of course, is ammo availability. I suppose one could simply go with a revolver in 9mm/45acp/whatever the issued auto's are using.