Review: Sig 556R - Not what I expected

It happens to semi auto's all the time. Handgun & rifles, especially when they are new.
Click to expand...

Thats because company's are cutting corners anywhere they can. If they can make a part cheaper they will. Sad because the concept behind this rifle is really neat.
If they had done it right I would have bought one....
 
Thanks for the excellent videos, Sturmgewehre! A shame that these SIGs are having problems.

I must say I winced a bit when I saw you pick up those cartridges so quickly after a primer strike. I'd be afraid of a hangfire incident, especially with a solid primer strike.
 
Sturmguire- I am always impressed with your videos and thanks again for a great review. I actually followed you on YouTube before I even knew you were a firing line member. My question is what kind of job do you have becuase I am very envious of all of your guns. P.S. how is the ACR treating ya? Still shooting ok it might be on my list of things to get!
 
A shame. I have had nothing but good experiences with every Sig pistol I have handled, so this is a surprise to me. The 5.56 version has good reviews, so I expected the 762X39 to follow suit. The fact that it takes AK mags really had me thinking about getting one, but I'm going to wait to see if the bugs get worked out. Now, if Ruger could make a Mini-30 that took AK mags, I'd be all in!
 
It keeps getting worse.

This was posted by a user of my Facebook page:

"I got the 556R with the intent of using the steel cased ammo. I took the rifle out today and it shot fine until I got to the wolf ammo. I called Sig and talked to Josh in customer service, he informed me that Sig will void the warranty if steel cased ammo is used and that it will not work in the rifle. Only brass and non-corrosive ammo is to be used in the rifle. i will be selling the rifle due to the fact that I have several cases of the steel ammo and that Sig did not put a disclaimer on the web. Josh made the statement " Its in the owner manual but not on the web" So if you are thinking of buying the Sig 556R you can only use brass ammo."
Click to expand...

Another user on the sigarms556.com forums confirmed that customer service agents at Sig are now telling folks this on the phone, this time the caller spoke to a service rep named Scott:

http://www.sigarms556.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10726
OTOH as I was typing this I was on the phone with Sig and spoke with "Scott," and I asked him about this and was told it IS TRUE -- not supposed to be used with steel cased ammo!!
Click to expand...

Not good considering steel cased ammo is the defacto standard in 7.62x39 and most people will shoot it. Not too many people will want to shoot $.90 a round ammo out of their rifle. I suspect most people want this rifle because of the cheap steel cased ammo and cheap AK mags.

But that's the other issue that's come to light. The 556R uses an alloy lower. Sig didn't reinforce the lower where the toe of the magazine locks in. If you use steel mags in the gun, you start to see serious erosion on the lower within as few as 1000 rounds. After a few thousand rounds fired out of steel mags there will be serious damage to the rifle. I fired 90 rounds out of a steel mag in my rifle and noticed the damage being done.
 
FT "Thats because company's are cutting corners anywhere they can"

So all the modifications done on 1911 since, I'm guessing 1912 is because of cutting corners? Interesting:rolleyes:
 
Personally, I would be livid if I was even associated with a company that puts out products like that. There's just no excuse other than greed for it.
 
First of all, its not the guns fault, and its not the ammos fault.

I have built 5 AR15 rifles in 7.62x39 and 2 in 5.45x39.

Wolf ammo is the culprit on this one. No, the ammo is not bad, it is made in the Tula aresenal in Russia and is of very good quality. However, the firing pin inertia needed to fire it is what is causing the issue. The fact that it is berdian primed, crimped and then coated with a sealer, makes it very hard to fire with a light spring set up in an AR type rifle. The Sig has the same issue.
When choosing springs for the AR, you must go with a set "red" springs for increased power and firing pin inertia. As imagined, you get a poor quality of trigger with the increase power.

Heres what I have done with good results:

First, I replace the firing pin with one that is made from titantium. The lighter firing pin travels faster and for the most part will shoot the ammo.

Second, I change the trigger system to a national match two stage trigger, I like Bushmasters set up.

Third, I have brased a steel pad on the front of the AR15 hammer, about 1/16th of inch thick. This increases the mass/weight of the hammer, and also increases the stroke of the hammer when it strikes the firing pin.

Now I don't know what options you have with SIG, but I am sure a comptent machinest/gunsmith can do the work.

I don't blame SIG on this one, the rifle works well. However, most people want to shoot low cost ammo, and you just can't have a good trigger system when firing Wolf ammo, unless you take the time to improve function of the weapon.

I think SIG was more inclined to have a nice trigger, why on earth would you buy a SIG and pay the money to have a crappy trigger, when you could have bought an AK to start with?

I have seen no issues with Silver Bear or Golden Bear. Not much higher, but a little softer primer, and better accruacy results.
 
can't use steel cased ammo huh? They also decided to keep that fact hidden until people actually started buying them eh? HAHAHAH whoever is running sig is a freaken moron.

That's like putting out a hybrid car and not tell anyone that the car is only rated for 13mpg. Pathetic. Sig really is going down the ****ter.
 
Strongsidearms,

If you watched the videos you would see that soft primer strikes aren't the only issue with Wolf. The gun fails to feed and extract with every mag, plus has soft primer strikes.

Yes, I do blame Sig and it is the rifles fault in my opinion. They purposely designed the rifle to fire AK ammo. They claim on thier website that it's designed for "special forces" that might want to use a 7.62x39. In my experience 7.62x39 in the military world uses mostly steel cased, hard primed ammo.

Welding a hammer, bending springs, trying to find titanium firing pins, etc. is not the job of the owner. If Sig were doing their job right, this rifle would act like the AK it was designed after and digest anything you put in it. The rifle also has some of the worst/cheap stocks I've seen outside of airsoft toys. The optic they give you vs. quality iron sights is another example of their willingness to compromise. At best it's a $20 Chinese airsoft quality RDS. It's proof Sig isn't worried about quality as much as they are maximizing profits at the expense of quality.

I wanted to love that rifle, it's a brilliant concept. Unfortunately I found the execution to poorly carried out. Thats why I didn't send it to Sig for repairs and simply returned it to my dealer. I knew Sig couldnt fix "the cheap".
 
I should also note that if you use steel AK mags in the rifle, it will damage the alloy receiver where the front of the mag locks in. I only fired 90 rounds through a steel mag and I noticed erosion already taking place. A poster on AR15.com who fired 10000 rounds of brass cased Yugo surplus through his noted he had severe erosion from using some steel mags.

Sig should have discovered this in testing. But that's why they ship it with a cheap plastic mag vs. a steel one I suspect. I have mostly steel mags in my collection and this also factored in to my decision not to keep the rifle.
 
Here's the image from the reviewer who fired about 1000 rounds through his 556R including the use of some steel mags.

Screenshot2011-03-24at92839AM.jpg


As you can see, the damage to the rifle appears very quickly and after a few thousands rounds of using steel mags, or surplus steel reinforced polymer mags, the damage might cause enough erosion to cause feeding issues. If nothing else, the mag wobble that's already present will only worsen with use.
 
If you watched the videos you would see that soft primer strikes aren't the only issue with Wolf. The gun fails to feed and extract with every mag, plus has soft primer strikes.
Click to expand...

I only watched the first video. Did I miss the FTFs? I just saw light primer stikes.

In my experience 7.62x39 in the military world uses mostly steel cased, hard primed ammo
Click to expand...

Wolf is not the only steel cased ammo. Did you try any other ammo? Silver Bear and Golden Bear are both steel cased and they have never given me a problem. However, wolf has, its the bottom of barrel in a steel case. Would you buy a Ferrari and run 65 octane in it?

Welding a hammer, bending springs, trying to find titanium firing pins, etc. is not the job of the owner. If Sig were doing their job right, this rifle would act like the AK it was designed after and digest anything you put in it. The rifle also has some of the worst/cheap stocks I've seen outside of airsoft toys. The optic they give you vs. quality iron sights is another example of their willingness to compromise. At best it's a $20 Chinese airsoft quality RDS. It's proof Sig isn't worried about quality as much as they are maximizing profits at the expense of quality.
Click to expand...

This is all opinion based. Not every owner may want to run cheap ammo through their high price toy. Also, if you wanted to do that, it can be done. However, it obivious to me that Sig didn't want to design the rifle that way. It sounds like to me that you want your cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways unless your going to spend the money. If you want an ak, buy an ak. If you want a accurate, modular, and modern rifle, buy the sig. I just wouldn't trash the rifle over it not performing like you wanted it to. If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.

I do have an issue with SIG not telling there customers up front NOT to shoot steel cased ammo through it. Also, the point you made about the mag well is good. That has to do with material issue and is not an opinion.

A good review is one that is unbiased, pointing out pros and cons.
 
Silver Bear and Golden Bear are both steel cased and they have never given me a problem. However, wolf has, its the bottom of barrel in a steel case. Would you buy a Ferrari and run 65 octane in it?
Click to expand...

If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.
Click to expand...

Not to nit-pick but these two statments contradict each other. First your "Ferrari" rifle statment imply's that the SIG is a "superior" product.

Then you say its not because it is "only a 1k rifle".

Sorry but a 1k rifle shouldn't be this crappy. Period. Wolf ammo isn't great, but it works fine in my $300 AK's. Sig should know that people are going to use cheap ammo for practice. And should have a harder/stronger firing pin in the rifle. Period.

And the feeding/extraction issues are still there. Not to meantion that steel AK mags (the magazine's the rifle is designed to use) chew up the rifle. This is inexcuseable.
 
Last edited:
I only watched the first video. Did I miss the FTFs? I just saw light primer stikes.
Click to expand...
Yes, you missed the second video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrObcZb_CCI

Wolf is not the only steel cased ammo. Did you try any other ammo? Silver Bear and Golden Bear are both steel cased and they have never given me a problem. However, wolf has, its the bottom of barrel in a steel case. Would you buy a Ferrari and run 65 octane in it?
Click to expand...
You think Silver Bear is something special and you think Wolf is bottom of the barrel? What do you base this assessment on? You think Zinc plated steel is superior to polymer coated steel? Do you know where these various brands are even made, or how?

The Sig 556R is far from a Ferrari. If you think the 556R is well made and a cut above the competition, I would say you either have one of a kind Sig 556R or you have very little experience outside of that rifle.

This is all opinion based. Not every owner may want to run cheap ammo through their high price toy. Also, if you wanted to do that, it can be done. However, it obivious to me that Sig didn't want to design the rifle that way. It sounds like to me that you want your cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways unless your going to spend the money. If you want an ak, buy an ak. If you want a accurate, modular, and modern rifle, buy the sig. I just wouldn't trash the rifle over it not performing like you wanted it to. If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.
Click to expand...
The Sig isn't high priced. It used to be, when they were introduced. But due to poor quality and spotty performance, the price has steadily dropped like a rock. If you think $1,100 is a lot of money for a rifle, again, I would say you have very little experience buying such rifles.

Wolf isn't "cheap" AK ammo, it's a standard. Every 7.62x39 rifle I own will shoot Wolf fine (as well as every 5.56 rifle I have). The only rifle I've owned that won't fire Wolf is the Sig 556R.

The Sig 556R isn't modular, you obviously have no idea what that even means. The Bushmaster ACR is "modular".

A good review is one that is unbiased, pointing out pros and cons.
Click to expand...
I would have pointed out the pros, if it had any.

  • Fit and finish are substandard
  • Unreliable
  • Poor quality stocks, they're toyish
  • Cheap optic
  • No open sights
  • Non-chrome lined barrel (not nitrited either)
  • Common AK surplus mags will damage the receiver
  • Sig tells people it isn't designed for steel cased ammo (the most common type of AK ammo on the planet)

It had promise, but unfortunately Sig fumbled the ball.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top