Revamping Mauser 98
- Thread starter 44caliberkid
- Start date
This. 8X57 will kill anything in North America, even with the wimpy US SAMMI Spec commercial ammo. For more detail on what I am talking about, read this thread.
Don't fix what ain't broke.
I have 3 Shaw, two Interarms and a 700, in 6.5-06 and 280 Rem. One 280 Interarms sports the 26" Fluted Heavy Sporter, and the 280 700 has a 24" Remington #1 (Light Sporter). I'm suggesting the Spiral Fluted Heavy Sporter because it comes in 26", which the 28 will need for designed performance. Love ER Shaw Barrels.
Sent PM to 44Caliber.
As for Shaw barrels, i just received my second one.
First was a "special". 250 Savage for a Savage 10. 24" polished blued for $125.
Second was special order. Both look great. Haven't had chance to shoot either yet.
I've seen/held several of their rifles. I really like them, especially for the price.
1 in particular. 7mm Rem Mag. Polished stainless with the barrel grooves painted black. Had muzzle brake screwed on. Couldn't tell where narrel ended and brake started. I looked hard. Couldn't see any line. Guy at counter did unscrew it to prove it was separate.
As for Shaw barrels, i just received my second one.
First was a "special". 250 Savage for a Savage 10. 24" polished blued for $125.
Second was special order. Both look great. Haven't had chance to shoot either yet.
I've seen/held several of their rifles. I really like them, especially for the price.
1 in particular. 7mm Rem Mag. Polished stainless with the barrel grooves painted black. Had muzzle brake screwed on. Couldn't tell where narrel ended and brake started. I looked hard. Couldn't see any line. Guy at counter did unscrew it to prove it was separate.
I did not intend to put down Shaw barrels.
The OP asked about heavy vs light contours.This is just my opinion.
If the intent is a practical hunting rifle,with good hunting accuracy,IMO,a light contour mid quality barrel,such as a Shaw,can certainly deliver.
I have been very happy with every Douglas barrel I have used.
Frankly,the most mediocre barrels I've seen were from the major firearms manufacturers.
Again,just my opinion,if the desired rifle is to be in the sub-MOA zone of HUNTING rifle,my priority would go for the higher cost of a top tier barrel in a #3 or so before I would go a #5 or target contour in a more affordable barrel I prefer lighter rifles. That's just me.
It was never intended as a slam on Shaw.
The OP asked about heavy vs light contours.This is just my opinion.
If the intent is a practical hunting rifle,with good hunting accuracy,IMO,a light contour mid quality barrel,such as a Shaw,can certainly deliver.
I have been very happy with every Douglas barrel I have used.
Frankly,the most mediocre barrels I've seen were from the major firearms manufacturers.
Again,just my opinion,if the desired rifle is to be in the sub-MOA zone of HUNTING rifle,my priority would go for the higher cost of a top tier barrel in a #3 or so before I would go a #5 or target contour in a more affordable barrel I prefer lighter rifles. That's just me.
It was never intended as a slam on Shaw.
i have a german 98 mauser made in 1939 that was sporterized in the late 50,s, it has a adjustable trigger with sliding safety, original barrel shortened to 22 inches, bolt altered to a winchester model 70 style and reblued to look like new and the best part a fantistic piece of dark walnut with oil finish and just enough checkering to be usefull. and full lenth glass bedded original barrel contour. with a older 4x stith-bearcub scope that shoots 1-1.5" groups with junk american ammo, but where it realy shines is with top end reloads useing .323 180gr XFB barnes bullets at 2700- 2800 fps. no rebarrel for me. eastbank.
This was shot with my full stock 8MM at 107 yards. The barrel is a pre-war military barrel I cut off and turned to a 1920s sporter contour.
PC070001 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
PC070002 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
It works just fine even on bull elk.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Deer and antelope also fall fast to this little rifle.
If you want more power than the 8X57 gives, you might try a 9.3X57 or a 9.3X62.
If you want more range and flatter trajectory I'd recommend a 270 or 280.
The super magnums all come at a price. And in my experience (which is considerable) I have not seen that any of them offer any real world advantage to shells we have had for 50-80 years.
And ER Shaw doesn't show the 9.3 bore on their web site, but they do make them. I bought 7 of them about 2 months ago from ER Shaw. The 9.3X57 I am making for myself has one in it. To see it go to the The Hunt forum. That rifle is in process now.
I have an ER Shaw barrel in one of my 270s and also in my 375H&H, and both of them shoot as well as any $600 dollar barrel I have ever used on any gun even though the Shaw barrels cost about 1/4 as much. All bullets touching is the norm for these 2 rifles and many of those bullets overlap.
Spending $400 to $700 on a barrel doesn't mean lesser priced barrels are not just as accurate.
If you get a Shaw or a Green Mountain barrel and it shoots "only 1 MOA" both companies will say that's within spec. If you spend $600 on another makers barrel and you want 1/2 groups, and their barrel only shoots 1 MOA, they might work with you on supplying a new barrel, but only after some hoop-jumping" to see that it really is a barrel issue and not a load issue, stock issue, scope issue or shooter issue. When and if they replace the barrel you may get a better one, and probably would get a better one.
However my experience with barrels (as a gunsmith for nearly 1/2 century) is that for $600 I can buy 4 barrels from ER Shaw and as a rule about 75% of their barrels shoot as well as any barrel you can buy at any price. So if you have an 75% chance with each barrel and you were to buy 4 of them, do you think you may get one that is good enough?
I think so.
Price is not always an indicator of quality, and in barrels I can say it's never an indicator.
PC070001 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrPC070002 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrOLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on FlickrIt works just fine even on bull elk.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on FlickrDeer and antelope also fall fast to this little rifle.
If you want more power than the 8X57 gives, you might try a 9.3X57 or a 9.3X62.
If you want more range and flatter trajectory I'd recommend a 270 or 280.
The super magnums all come at a price. And in my experience (which is considerable) I have not seen that any of them offer any real world advantage to shells we have had for 50-80 years.
And ER Shaw doesn't show the 9.3 bore on their web site, but they do make them. I bought 7 of them about 2 months ago from ER Shaw. The 9.3X57 I am making for myself has one in it. To see it go to the The Hunt forum. That rifle is in process now.
I have an ER Shaw barrel in one of my 270s and also in my 375H&H, and both of them shoot as well as any $600 dollar barrel I have ever used on any gun even though the Shaw barrels cost about 1/4 as much. All bullets touching is the norm for these 2 rifles and many of those bullets overlap.
Spending $400 to $700 on a barrel doesn't mean lesser priced barrels are not just as accurate.
If you get a Shaw or a Green Mountain barrel and it shoots "only 1 MOA" both companies will say that's within spec. If you spend $600 on another makers barrel and you want 1/2 groups, and their barrel only shoots 1 MOA, they might work with you on supplying a new barrel, but only after some hoop-jumping" to see that it really is a barrel issue and not a load issue, stock issue, scope issue or shooter issue. When and if they replace the barrel you may get a better one, and probably would get a better one.
However my experience with barrels (as a gunsmith for nearly 1/2 century) is that for $600 I can buy 4 barrels from ER Shaw and as a rule about 75% of their barrels shoot as well as any barrel you can buy at any price. So if you have an 75% chance with each barrel and you were to buy 4 of them, do you think you may get one that is good enough?
I think so.
Price is not always an indicator of quality, and in barrels I can say it's never an indicator.
ligonierbill
New member
Oh my, I'm in trouble now. Next time I'm coming through Bridgeville, I might have to drop off one of mine. Glad to hear that Shaw has the 9.3 bore. Then again, my 8x57s shoot pretty good.
I have no issues with the quality of GM blanks- it's the fact that they don't contour them- which means they're fine if the customer wants a straight bull, not so if they want a contoured barrel. By the time the cost of contouring, polishing, etc. is passed on to the customer, I could provide a barrel from Shilen, Douglas, McGowen, X-Caliber and others for the same or less.
Additionally, their lengths are odd....they have nothing listed in 28", they're 27". Their guidelines call for cutting an inch off each end before crowning/chambering meaning a 25" finished barrel. One of the most common finished lengths requested is 26"...
Additionally, their lengths are odd....they have nothing listed in 28", they're 27". Their guidelines call for cutting an inch off each end before crowning/chambering meaning a 25" finished barrel. One of the most common finished lengths requested is 26"...
Yeah GM blanks are not for everyone. I like them because I often work on rifles that are 80-120 years old and I can't buy the contour I need to do that old style shape. A lot of the time (as in now with 3 I have in the shop) I am recreating the old 1890-1925 styles,
(like this one)
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
and the modern contour is just wrong for those types of guns. When I do one of the "modern shape" I often use Shelin, ER Shaw or McGowen. For the exact reason tobpr mentioned above.
You can just take a modern contour and re-cut it to the old style, but then you are paying a lot of money for something you are going to cut away.
So I use GM for many of the older styles guns. Not all, because there are calibers they don't make, just like the one in the picture above. it is an ER Shaw, but I bought it as an uncontoured blank too. In fact I bought 7 of them and I should have bought 11. I need to get 4 more.
(like this one)
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickrand the modern contour is just wrong for those types of guns. When I do one of the "modern shape" I often use Shelin, ER Shaw or McGowen. For the exact reason tobpr mentioned above.
You can just take a modern contour and re-cut it to the old style, but then you are paying a lot of money for something you are going to cut away.
So I use GM for many of the older styles guns. Not all, because there are calibers they don't make, just like the one in the picture above. it is an ER Shaw, but I bought it as an uncontoured blank too. In fact I bought 7 of them and I should have bought 11. I need to get 4 more.
Love this project....
If bears were my prey, I would be thinking 338 Federal.
If general big game, I would look at 280 AI. You get a lot more rounds per $ and more rounds per mag.
Also, the best calibers for hunting typically launch a standard construction bullet at 2600-3100fps. That is kind of a sweet spot for bullet performance and recoil.
Slimmer std cases offer available std caliber brass, mag capacity, bullet performance and barrel life. Fat cases are mystical and expensive.
I like 28 Nosler, but worry about its lifespan and reloadability.
If bears were my prey, I would be thinking 338 Federal.
If general big game, I would look at 280 AI. You get a lot more rounds per $ and more rounds per mag.
Also, the best calibers for hunting typically launch a standard construction bullet at 2600-3100fps. That is kind of a sweet spot for bullet performance and recoil.
Slimmer std cases offer available std caliber brass, mag capacity, bullet performance and barrel life. Fat cases are mystical and expensive.
I like 28 Nosler, but worry about its lifespan and reloadability.
Yeah the 338 Fed and the 358 win both have more merit then their sales seem to indicate. I have made several of each for customers and I have been impressed with what they can really do as opposed to what he gun-rag-writers say they can do.
For me, I prefer the 9.3X57 just because #1 The standard Military Mauser action need NO modifications at all to feed perfectly. It's the same basic case as the 8X57 and in fact, that what i make the ammo from. PPU 8X57 brass. #2 I like the old German/Swedish shell in the classic Mauser.
But the 338 and 358 shells will do fine too.
The 9.3X57 in it's original load (made for the weaker M94 Mausers) is only a 2050 FPS load with a 286 grain bullet or a 2350 FPS load with a 232 grain. In the stronger M98 actions (like this one) you can load it to the same pressures as the military 8X57 and that throws a 232 grain bullet at about 2550 or a 286 at about 2350. Such loads are REALLY effective on large game up to moose size, but in a 7 pound gun can kick fairly hard. I have a 9.3X62 in the works too, so I see no personal reason to hot-rod the 9.3X57 shell.
In it's original form the lower velocity loads kill well and don't kick all that hard.
There are times I'd like more power, but in those times I can carry my 9.3X62 or my 375H&H. Or even my 404.
Fox bullets in Slovenia makes a 9.3MM bullet of 220 grains which may be an excellent bullet for this little rifle. Loaded to 2400 FPS the Fox bullet is easily able to put any animal I want to shoot with this gun on the ground with 1 round.
I didn't choose the cartridge because it was "better" then something else, but because I like it better than many other cartridges. The main function of this rifle is to delight me, it's owner.
I will enjoy it every day of the year, not just the few days a year I am able to hunt with it.
For me, I prefer the 9.3X57 just because #1 The standard Military Mauser action need NO modifications at all to feed perfectly. It's the same basic case as the 8X57 and in fact, that what i make the ammo from. PPU 8X57 brass. #2 I like the old German/Swedish shell in the classic Mauser.
But the 338 and 358 shells will do fine too.
The 9.3X57 in it's original load (made for the weaker M94 Mausers) is only a 2050 FPS load with a 286 grain bullet or a 2350 FPS load with a 232 grain. In the stronger M98 actions (like this one) you can load it to the same pressures as the military 8X57 and that throws a 232 grain bullet at about 2550 or a 286 at about 2350. Such loads are REALLY effective on large game up to moose size, but in a 7 pound gun can kick fairly hard. I have a 9.3X62 in the works too, so I see no personal reason to hot-rod the 9.3X57 shell.
In it's original form the lower velocity loads kill well and don't kick all that hard.
There are times I'd like more power, but in those times I can carry my 9.3X62 or my 375H&H. Or even my 404.
Fox bullets in Slovenia makes a 9.3MM bullet of 220 grains which may be an excellent bullet for this little rifle. Loaded to 2400 FPS the Fox bullet is easily able to put any animal I want to shoot with this gun on the ground with 1 round.
I didn't choose the cartridge because it was "better" then something else, but because I like it better than many other cartridges. The main function of this rifle is to delight me, it's owner.
I will enjoy it every day of the year, not just the few days a year I am able to hunt with it.