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Fubsy,
As we have agreed countless times, the Libertarians have not been elected to
the Presidency. However, to jump from there to the assumption that a
Libertarian could NOT be effective as President is unwarranted and unworthy
of your judgment and the opinions you have expressed.
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D. Actually that is my argument that they are ineffective and have no proof that they can do other wise.
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George Junior has never been President. By your own argument Bush
therefore must rely upon the “experience” of his fellow Rockefeller
Republicans - gun grabbers by their own promise.
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Once again, I dont like bush, but yes I would vote for him over a democrat, i still believe that a vote for a libertarian is a vote for a democrat att,....not all republicans are trying to sell us out, I do think that the ones that arre need to go,and be replaced by conservatives, ......
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If you have expanded “track record” from the Presidency to include “our
political system” you have cut the throat of your argument. Libertarians in
local and state offices repeatedly have proven their Constitutional stand
opposite the Republican/Democrat regime.
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This is exactly what Im talking about...who are you referring to?, what local and state offices?
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I want to recognize, address, and resolve the drug problem. I despise drug
abuse but a huge number of Americans are engaged in making, distributing,
selling, and using drugs. The drug problem is NOT getting better. The
so-called War on Drugs is becoming too tyrannical to accept - it must end.
Already the government can seize your property and sell it before you are
even indicted! No indictment, NO trial, NO guilty verdict, they just take your
stuff, sell it, and take the money.
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I do believe that you despise it, but you are willingly supporting a group of people who believe that its ok, not because the so called war on drugs isnt working, but because they believe that it should be legal.
I dont support or agree in any measure that confiscation is a valid, no more than I believe that the rico act is good...
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The Democrat/Republican regime is making too much money and usurping
too much power from the War on Drugs. But drug use continues. The Drug
producers and distributors get rich. The politicians get rich. And the
American people pay more taxes to support the whole danged lot of them.
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ROTFLMAO....and you dont think the libertarians are going to try and make money...there was apost on this tfl were a member posted there was some disagreement in the libertarian party over brown and his folks just doin it for the money?...i think its on that other thread....
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The Democrats and Republicans are winning both money and increasing
power over the American people. Our Bill of Rights is being destroyed and
the American people are being disenfranchised. This, quite simply, must stop.
Our borders already are open. In the words of those who keep them, our
border are “sieves”. We must accept that and cope with it, or do what is
necessary to change it.
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accept that and cope with it....dosent sound like you, I thought you'd want open borders, isnt that the libertarian platform ?
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Voting for the current Democrat/Republican regime is to perpetuate the
current political machine. There are not enough so-called conservative
Republicans to bring about change or to prevent the demonization of gun
owners or to prevent gun registration and confiscation in America.
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I sincerly hope your wrong here, and that there are enuf conservative republicans elected to halt this situation, I already know there arent enuf libertarians.....yet...
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We agree that there is no defense for a statist such as Trent Lott, but you
continue to support him and advocate others do likewise. I quit. I won’t
support him any more.
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My support for Lott is very grudging, I do believe he needs to be replaced, but thats up to his constituents....I never have liked the guy, he is not conservative enuf for me......look its like frist and thompson in my state, fred pissed me right off when he could not vote yea for the article of impeachment concerning whether clinton perjured himself or not---he had his head up his butt. that very action means he is not to be trusted and we in this state need to work to replace him. Frist, that poor little rich kid, lol.....he supports the Juvenille justice (finger in throat here), and that means we have to replace him, but were are our alternatives?....this is the home of brown and were is his vaunted libertarians????--you would think in his home area he could field somepeople, know? If he has who are they ? He dosent live more than 15-20 miles from me.....
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To say that a Libertarian President would be powerless is an unsupportable
viewpoint.
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It is not unsupportable, your whole game plan relys on his ablity to muster the, what do ya'll call em again...oh yeah the ""SHEEPLE"", so that congress would not DARE to block anything he wanted, give me a break--they'll eat him up and spit him out for lunch and the american people will watch it likes it's oprah winfrey....sheesh....for ya'll to suceed you need to put forth that impression that it is unsupportable. I wish it was that simple, hell id vote for him, but its not....
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* A Libertarian President would force Congress to overcome his vetoes.
Then Congresscritters would be forced to show their real colors to the
currently unaware American masses.
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Do you not think they already know, and that they either dont care or they dont agree with you or for that matter me...?
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* A Libertarian President would eliminate the current and tyrannical
Presidential Executive Orders.
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I know that is what the platform says, but how is he going to lead without a supporting cast in congress????...ya reckon he might use executive orders?...otherwise he'd be like a fish out of water.
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* A Libertarian President would eliminate the tyrannical regulations,
directives, rules, unwritten policies and procedures intended to enslave us.
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Now this one is really reaching, How again is he to do this?...magic wand time again? Oh yeah I forgot he will use Executive Orders....
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* What would a Libertarian President to the Internal Revenue Service,
Department of Justice, BATF, FBI, and the alphabet soup of enforcers currently in power?
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I would sure like to see changes there, and he could with the power of his office affect the appointment of the director of the fbi, and the dept of justice, and Im not sure if he appts the rest or not, but he cant get rid of them with out congress---unless he uses .......executive orders.....and I bet congress would overrule that.....
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* What kind of judge would the President nominate to the Supreme Court?
How could the Democrats and Republicans NOT confirm nomination after
nomination of qualified judges of integrity? The Democrat/Republican
political machine could not withstand such obstructionism for long.
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Oh come on,,,,,,You do know of a federal Judge by the name of BORK....he is probably the strictiest constitutionalist around and they destroyed him politically....This is a crucial area and pro constitutional judges need to be elected,....
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You state, “As far as the libertarian track record Ive asked many times and
have not received any kind of response, ...” I would ask readers of our posts
to review this thread and judge for themselves.
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Im asking for examples, peoples names,positions they've won how long they stayed in office ,,, not party platform and rhetoric, come on there has to be some and ya'll have to know who they are, heck your carrying there water.......
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You state, “I feel that our government and institutions are out of control....
“Like you I fear too that if a significant change does not occur in our
government and our institutions that the loss we suffer will be great and it
will be the death knell of our country. Unfortunately, I am not convinced of
the ability of the Libertarian party to suceed in such an endever...”
* Even you, as a staunch Republican supporter, admit our government is out
of control. Apparently you agree the Democrat/Republican machine no
longer represents the American people. You admit the current path leads to
destruction and violence. So why continue the slide into Socialism? It’s time
for a change.
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A staunch republican huh...lol....what I am is someone who believes in our constitution and dont feel that the party you support can att do what you profess it can do, Im not alone in that belief or your party would have a significant position nationally. Im concerned that the "its time for a change" and the change will be the democrats will have both houses of congress and the presidency.
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* Even if you are NOT sure the Libertarians will be better, why continue
with what assuredly is worse? It doesn’t make sense.
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This could be the crux of our positions. Iam not sure the libertarians can do anything on a national scale ...att....
Ive gotten the impression from our posts that you believe the problem is so great and they system is so flawed that there is no hope of correcting the problems,,,,I dont feel that way, I think the problems can be corrected with the proper people and support, The existing politcal situation we find ourselves in did not occur over night and I doubt if it can be changed overnight.
Even the libertarians will be working within the existing structure of our politcs, that cant be changed over night. In some areas they cant even get on the ballot, so how are they going to win nationally?
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* The Republican/Democrats won’t change. They have too much to gain by
perpetuating the current system of usurping power and gaining control over
the American people.
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That is not true, the party's have changed many times, depending upon the members....ronald regan, and nixon were not the same, carter and clinton wee not the same, the democratic party of hubert humphrey is not the democratic party of today. And they do perpetuate the system that instilled them in power, changes are need there as well, but ya cant make the changes unless you can get elected, and yall cant get elected....----
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* Both Republicans AND Democrats are calling publicly for gun
control.
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it sucks too, and I hope we burn the bums who have turned on us......
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But, for lack of a “track record”, you refuse to support the RKBA promised
by the Libertarians?
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That is correct, were is the evidence that they will be effective in a state let alone at the national level, even if they could be elected, so if I vote for the libertarians and they dont win, what happens, the democrats do and they will rush to destroy the second amendment, and yes some of the rockefeller style types will help them and some republicans will not, at the very least they will be in a position to try and stop the democrats, and ill go home and look in my mirror...sheesh....although Ill tell ya this is the one area, That I do believe a libertarian president could use his veto pen, if its not overridden.
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inertia, Fubsy. You are continuing on the path to
tyranny in the vain hope the snake will change its personality and have a
sudden burst of morality. Not likely. If the Libertarians can not break the
Democrat/Republican stranglehold on the American Presidency, we will get
the promised increase in gun control - which leads to registration and
confiscation. And you will have the Democrats and Republicans to thank for
taking the very actions they promised.
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Inertia is the very thing I want to stop,,,the damn democrats and rockefeller republicans passing more gun control--but you have to be electable and get elected to do it and one here and one there aint gonna get it done.......
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And, similar to the snake, if you protest the loss of our Right to Keep and
Bear Arms, the Democrats and Republicans will say, “You knew what I was
when you voted for me!”
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have you never heard of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer.....the partys are not fixed in stone, they can be changed, they have been changed-----its like ive said earlier I dont care who ya vote for, but when ya lose and all of us continue to lose faster with out any potential of slowing em down, remember ya voted your councience(sp).....do I like everything they do no, do you like everything the libertarians stand for?, of course they have done little so its easy to like em, they can have positions without compromise, because its all rehetoric, heck, i like the rhetoric--its the reality I have a problem with....
My friend we have hashed this till Im sick of it, Im gonna continue my packing and move and maybe if we can find something new to disagree about we could start again..lol....you stay safe and keep up the good fight my friend...fubsy.
