All,
If you are offended by our discussion, skip this thread!
It’s not worth your peace of mind or your health to be upset by threads you
easily can skip!
a) Of course, everyone is free to chime in - helpful comments can clarify
issues.
b) Let’s keep the discussion on THIS thread rather than mucking up other
folks’ offerings.
c) Let’s stay civil. If we can present facts clearly, we each can evaluate them
and come to different, even opposing positions in a rational, studied manner.
-------
Let’s stay calm and let our facts do the fighting, OK? So, let me list our arguments as best I understand them at this time. Please add your views or correct any
misunderstanding that I have, OK? As we agree on corrections and
additions, I will re-post them (by editing) to this first post as proponents direct.
By editing this first post,
- We (and others) can keep track of where we stand just by reading the first
post!
- A fair summary will be kept.
- We can even delete our later posts to save bandwidth for Rich. (After all,
he’s the guy paying to support our chat.)
==========================================================
We should vote Republican because:
==========================================================
1) To split votes between a Republican who has a good chance of winning the Presidency and a third-party candidate who has NO chance of winning probably would result in a Democrat President.
2) A Democrat President would:
a) Tax and spend worse than a Republican,
b) Destroy our gun rights quicker than a Republican,
c) Possibly even confiscate (or set-up confiscation of) our firearms.
3) A third-party President would unite Congress against the Presidency to
the extent that:
a) There would be little or no cooperation between the Congress and a third
Party President.
b) Such conflict would result in deadlocking our federal government and
preventing much useful (as well as less-than-useful) legislation.
c) Such conflict could adversely affect our international relations. (I don’t
know how far you feel this one could go, so please add to this one.)
4) If we (gun owners) abandon the Republican Party, and:
a) If they win, they see us as an impotent fringe group whom they can ignore.
b) If they lose, they see us as turncoats, unreliable supporters, etc.
5) A solid majority of either party will not be as handicapped and forced to compromise or as prone to compromise.
6) We should be more concerned with the Supreme Court than with the Congress. Supreme Court openings must be filled by Republicans (with Conservatives) rather than by Democrats (with Liberals) - so vote Republican for the sake of the Supreme Court appointments to be made.
7) We should give the Republicans one more chance - four more years.
8) A Republican President would eliminate some of the onerous Presidential Executive Orders.
9) A Republican might slow down the increasing gun control victories in Congress.
10) Libertarians have no track record - we have no way to tell if they will do what they promise.
11) Libertarians promise the world but won't be able to deliver.
==========================================================
We should vote Libertarian because:
==========================================================
1) Voting for a Republican is a wasted vote. The Republicans and Democrats are too similar to differentiate.
a) They both tax and spend too much.
b) They both are destroying our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and our way of
life. The only discernible difference is the Democrats are quicker and worse
than the Republicans.
c) If the Democrats have their way, we will lose our gun rights quickly.
d) If the Republicans have their way, we will lose our gun rights by
compromise in a slower manner, which is likely to be more effective than
trying to outlaw gun ownership quickly.
e) The Republocrats are pushing the U.S. into a subservience to the United Nations.
f) The Republocrats are entangling us needless, maybe illegal, maybe immoral treaties and conflicts.
2) Whether a Republican or Democrat wins the Presidency, we will lose.
a) However, if a third party, such as the Libertarians, win a large number of
voters, this represents “lost” votes to the Republocrats.
b) A party that wins the Presidency by a small margin can NOT claim a
“mandate”.
c) Whoever wins will see the American people are getting wise to the
Republocrat games and getting fed up.
3) If gun owners would wake up and vote Libertarian there might just be a
chance for a third party candidate.
4) A third party candidate would reduce or eliminate many of our obnoxious,
anti-American programs - possibly saving our Republic.
5) A solid Democratic majority means more and more guns laws. The Republicans HAD a majority and we got more and more gun laws. The difference is only one of speed and severity - the eventual outcome would be the same with a Democratic or Republican majority.
6) The Supreme Court is important - they interpret the laws of our land. However, the President and the Congress are making both laws and directives with the power of law. The Supreme Court won't even decide whether the Second Amendment means what it obviously says! The Supreme Court, filled with appointees of the Republocrats won't even hear cases to restore our freedoms. Therefore, we must take over the Legislative and Executive Branches first - the Supreme Court later.
7) We have given BOTH the Democrats AND the Republicans MANY chances! Why would the NEXT four years be different from any of the previous "four years"? We can only lose more of the Bill of Rights by supporting these liars (Republicans and Democrats) for another for years.
8) A Libertarian President would eliminate ALL the onerous Presidential Executive Orders.
9a) Republicans facilitate and VOTE for gun control.
9b) A Libertarian President would veto ALL gun control measures. He would eliminate gun control directives in the entire Legislative Branch. He would work to revoke ALL gun control measures and punish violent offenders rather than "criminalize" decent Americans.
10) Liebertarians have no track record, but the Republican's track record shows them to be anti-gun "compromisers" with anything the Democrats come up with. With some 22,000 gun laws on the books, the two major parties have proven to be the enemies of freedom.
11) Both Libertarians and Republicans are making promises:
11a) Libertarians promise to eliminate gun control laws.
11b) Republicans, specifically Trent Lott, promised, gave his word, that Republicans would work with Democrats to enact NEW gun laws.
----------------------------------
For additional references, see next post.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 06, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 08, 1999).]
If you are offended by our discussion, skip this thread!
It’s not worth your peace of mind or your health to be upset by threads you
easily can skip!
a) Of course, everyone is free to chime in - helpful comments can clarify
issues.
b) Let’s keep the discussion on THIS thread rather than mucking up other
folks’ offerings.
c) Let’s stay civil. If we can present facts clearly, we each can evaluate them
and come to different, even opposing positions in a rational, studied manner.
-------
Let’s stay calm and let our facts do the fighting, OK? So, let me list our arguments as best I understand them at this time. Please add your views or correct any
misunderstanding that I have, OK? As we agree on corrections and
additions, I will re-post them (by editing) to this first post as proponents direct.
By editing this first post,
- We (and others) can keep track of where we stand just by reading the first
post!
- A fair summary will be kept.
- We can even delete our later posts to save bandwidth for Rich. (After all,
he’s the guy paying to support our chat.)
==========================================================
We should vote Republican because:
==========================================================
1) To split votes between a Republican who has a good chance of winning the Presidency and a third-party candidate who has NO chance of winning probably would result in a Democrat President.
2) A Democrat President would:
a) Tax and spend worse than a Republican,
b) Destroy our gun rights quicker than a Republican,
c) Possibly even confiscate (or set-up confiscation of) our firearms.
3) A third-party President would unite Congress against the Presidency to
the extent that:
a) There would be little or no cooperation between the Congress and a third
Party President.
b) Such conflict would result in deadlocking our federal government and
preventing much useful (as well as less-than-useful) legislation.
c) Such conflict could adversely affect our international relations. (I don’t
know how far you feel this one could go, so please add to this one.)
4) If we (gun owners) abandon the Republican Party, and:
a) If they win, they see us as an impotent fringe group whom they can ignore.
b) If they lose, they see us as turncoats, unreliable supporters, etc.
5) A solid majority of either party will not be as handicapped and forced to compromise or as prone to compromise.
6) We should be more concerned with the Supreme Court than with the Congress. Supreme Court openings must be filled by Republicans (with Conservatives) rather than by Democrats (with Liberals) - so vote Republican for the sake of the Supreme Court appointments to be made.
7) We should give the Republicans one more chance - four more years.
8) A Republican President would eliminate some of the onerous Presidential Executive Orders.
9) A Republican might slow down the increasing gun control victories in Congress.
10) Libertarians have no track record - we have no way to tell if they will do what they promise.
11) Libertarians promise the world but won't be able to deliver.
==========================================================
We should vote Libertarian because:
==========================================================
1) Voting for a Republican is a wasted vote. The Republicans and Democrats are too similar to differentiate.
a) They both tax and spend too much.
b) They both are destroying our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and our way of
life. The only discernible difference is the Democrats are quicker and worse
than the Republicans.
c) If the Democrats have their way, we will lose our gun rights quickly.
d) If the Republicans have their way, we will lose our gun rights by
compromise in a slower manner, which is likely to be more effective than
trying to outlaw gun ownership quickly.
e) The Republocrats are pushing the U.S. into a subservience to the United Nations.
f) The Republocrats are entangling us needless, maybe illegal, maybe immoral treaties and conflicts.
2) Whether a Republican or Democrat wins the Presidency, we will lose.
a) However, if a third party, such as the Libertarians, win a large number of
voters, this represents “lost” votes to the Republocrats.
b) A party that wins the Presidency by a small margin can NOT claim a
“mandate”.
c) Whoever wins will see the American people are getting wise to the
Republocrat games and getting fed up.
3) If gun owners would wake up and vote Libertarian there might just be a
chance for a third party candidate.
4) A third party candidate would reduce or eliminate many of our obnoxious,
anti-American programs - possibly saving our Republic.
5) A solid Democratic majority means more and more guns laws. The Republicans HAD a majority and we got more and more gun laws. The difference is only one of speed and severity - the eventual outcome would be the same with a Democratic or Republican majority.
6) The Supreme Court is important - they interpret the laws of our land. However, the President and the Congress are making both laws and directives with the power of law. The Supreme Court won't even decide whether the Second Amendment means what it obviously says! The Supreme Court, filled with appointees of the Republocrats won't even hear cases to restore our freedoms. Therefore, we must take over the Legislative and Executive Branches first - the Supreme Court later.
7) We have given BOTH the Democrats AND the Republicans MANY chances! Why would the NEXT four years be different from any of the previous "four years"? We can only lose more of the Bill of Rights by supporting these liars (Republicans and Democrats) for another for years.
8) A Libertarian President would eliminate ALL the onerous Presidential Executive Orders.
9a) Republicans facilitate and VOTE for gun control.
9b) A Libertarian President would veto ALL gun control measures. He would eliminate gun control directives in the entire Legislative Branch. He would work to revoke ALL gun control measures and punish violent offenders rather than "criminalize" decent Americans.
10) Liebertarians have no track record, but the Republican's track record shows them to be anti-gun "compromisers" with anything the Democrats come up with. With some 22,000 gun laws on the books, the two major parties have proven to be the enemies of freedom.
11) Both Libertarians and Republicans are making promises:
11a) Libertarians promise to eliminate gun control laws.
11b) Republicans, specifically Trent Lott, promised, gave his word, that Republicans would work with Democrats to enact NEW gun laws.
----------------------------------
For additional references, see next post.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 06, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 08, 1999).]
