Republicans Head to Convention Divided on Gun Ban

How long do you actually think this "Guest Worker" thing will last when and if Bush is elected to a second term? Sounds to me like a ploy to win the Hispanic Vote. Only in America would a politician be concerned about winning the votes of people who aren't Americans. Sigh. And I'm certainly not going to spin it; I live in New York -- we've got immigrants stacked ten high in one-room apartments, but they all have free public schools, health care and welfare.

But, I don't think that this one issue is enough to make someone throw their vote away. I personally think Bush is a downright unenlightened moron when it comes to stem cell research, and yet he'll receive my vote. Why? While Kerry might be more progressive scientifically, I don't remember reading anything about "shall protect and uphold the laws of science" in the Constitution. Even if Bush is against it, I'm fairly sure there will be some corrupt scientists working on it anyway. The need will be met with or without government interference.
 
Can't get to much more timely than this.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/nationworld/nation/ktla-082504immig_lat,0,1228272.story?coll=ktla-news-1

Bush isn't just paying lip service to this, he will make it happen. And he launched the concept long before the elections, long, long before the run up to the election.

On another point..."Even if Bush is against it, I'm fairly sure there will be some corrupt scientists working on it anyway. The need will be met with or without government interference."

The is nothing illegal about doing fetal stem cell research in the US. You just can't use federal dollars to do it. The fed will fund continuing work on regual stem cell lines. If you are under the impression no FSC work is taking place in the US I think you are mistaken. I beleive the media is happy to help create that idea in the minds of the viewers ie that the French and Japanese are going to dominate the field. They may but who cares.

You do know don't you that if a university makes a discovery, and federal bucks are, in part, funding the work, the patents are not public (read that taxpayer accessable at a discount) domain. They belong to the university. Which can in turn sell or license them out. So you, as the consumer can pay for them yet again.

BTW I'm opposed to tax payer funding of FSC work. It's just another gravy train perk for big business and their cronies in the university system. That, and I have one other Major problem with it but I won't go there.

S-
 
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I call it understanding political reality.

Well, if this is what they call it, then nothing, absolutely nothing is safe in the Constitution, ever. Not your speech freedoms, your right to vote, certainly not your right to keep and bear arms.

I might be a very simplistic individual, but to me, the world is composed of right, wrong and the things which can be negotiated. Seems the Democrats as well as the Republicans are taking almost daily the absolutes out of the BOR, without so much as pretending to amend the Constitution-is this your political reality?
 
SelfDefnz, you're right on the money. When people say "oh, you can't throw your vote away on a 3rd party in THIS, the most important election", well I used to think that too, but unfortunately, ALL Prez. elections are that important, every 4 years, for as far back as I can remember, and it always the same - don't nuttin ever change - the Repubs are never really "for" gun rights - they get farther and farther away if you "let them". So, how do you not "let them"? Well, one way is to vote a 3rd party, cuz you can bet your sweet bippy that after the election is over, those in the ONE-PARTY sytem (Dempublicans) will analyze to death who people voted for and why, and take that into account in formulating their platform for the next election. So it's not wasted - it has a real effect, albeit indirectly and over a longer period of time. When Perot got 18-19% of the popular vote, what did we talk about for 6-8 years after that? A balanced budget....lasted all the way from 92 until Shrub took office and started spending cuz the people forgot the importance of holding the gov't fiscally responsible. You think for one second we would have ever gotten that issue to the front-burner without Perot and his millions to run on and garner that vote? Of course not. Now, I firmly believe you must vote your conscience without an analysis of the final result, and that will have the best long-term impact, not to mention make you feel much better. If Shrub wants gun owners, the he'd better by damn cater to us - if the pols take you for granted, you have no power anyway, so...
 
First

I could not have said it better if I had tried.

After the smoke settles both sides will look at the numbers regardless of who the winner is. Some say the #'s of people voting 3rd party will never be significant or a big concern to the the Dems and Reps. I couldn't disagree more. Like you said, Perot sent a message all the radios at both party HQs picked up. I didn't vote for him but he was to the Republicans what the AWB was to the Dems=painful!

The more people that vote their convictions and state why publicly, the more that will feel empowered to do so next time, and over time. That , Ithink will change the face of future elections especially local ones.

I don't know how many votes will go Lib and Constitution Party this time. Ditto for the Nader count. I do know this however. The Republicans will look closely and the Lip and CP totals and you can bet the Dems will be keen to add up the Nader votes.

S-
 
Even if Bush is against it, I'm fairly sure there will be some corrupt scientists working on it anyway.
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You might want to pick a different bugaboo to criticize President Bush on, since he is the first President of this country to (unconstitutionally as I think we both agree) fund stem cell research.

The 2001 Executive Order (you may be refering to) banning further "harvest" of stem cells merely states that the United States government isn't going to pay abortionists to produce said "harvest". The compromise he made was to fund research on several existing lines of stem cells being produced in laboratories.

There is no need to "harvest" new stem cells for this work to proceed. By definition stem cells are a sort of fundamental cell, ergo new ones are not necessary.

BTW, Kerry wouldn't know a stem cell from a fruit-bat. But he is more *%^&ed up than a football bat.
Well, if this is what they call it, then nothing, absolutely nothing is safe in the Constitution, ever. Not your speech freedoms, your right to vote, certainly not your right to keep and bear arms.
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If you think that your freedoms hinge on voting for people at the fringe, then it is you who are mistaken. 99% of people who vote for nothing parties are a huge part of the threat(s) to our freedoms. Instead of doing the hard work of politics, they have chosen to invest their birthright in groups that aren't even a blip on the political screen.

Our freedom doesn't rest in the hands of politicians. It resides in us. We are the arbiters of our freedom.

Show of hands please!

How many 3rd party advocates here:

Served your country in the military?

Are an officer of your local shooting club/range, so that you can help assure a tight ship, and assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Are members of local service organizations that provide a positive example to those around you?

Are a firearms instructor in your (not so) spare time, so that you can help assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Mentor youth rifle teams, so that you can help assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Teach kids how to hunt safely, that you can help assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Raise money for Friends of NRA or similar organizations?

Work in some political capacity locally, so you can help assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Write for a local newspaper, so you can help assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Write your elected officials. so you can help assure a safe future for the RKBA?

Are a precinct committee officer/convention delegate so you can influence your party's platform?

Keep a sharp on on the filth your local public mindwashing camps are filling the heads of local students with?

etc.....

The reason I ask is because the overwhelming majority of people don't even know that third parties exist, much less that they receive any votes. What your neighbors will see however, is the people within their own community doing the hard work that makes their community better. And guess what? IT'S THEM YOU NEED TO CONVINCE! Not some party wonk doing a demographic analysis of who provided the Constitution Party with the one tenth of one percent of the total votes cast.

If your neighbors are not convinced that it isn't better to live in freedom, then no mortal messiah from ANY party is going to hand you the promised land.

You have to work for it.
 
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If you think that your freedoms hinge on voting for people at the fringe, then it is you who are mistaken.

You mistake my intentions, Fred. I don't care if the person is from the Republican party-which, incidentally was a "3rd party" who pushed for Lincoln, or the Martian party. It's not the party we send to Washington which makes the difference IMO, its the quality of people.

Take a look around-people like Teddy the drunken swimmer get re elected to term after term. I'm not necessarily a fan of term limits, but I do believe a real campaign reform act to address issues of power is needed. Maybe an oath of poverty to keep the powerful from becoming moreso.

I have voted Republican since Nixon, but a party faithful I am no longer. So far as work to make things happen, I belong to and contribute to several 2nd Amendment groups, teach people responsible firearms handling on my own dime and time, a life member of the DAV for losing a leg in the line of duty, and donate time to veterans affairs. I regularly e-mail and write to my elected representatives from Austin to the White House. My personal price of freedom has been rather expensive, but liberty always is. I have 3 children in the military and one who can't wait until he is old enough to serve-and I did nothing to encourage them to join. They do it because they see a duty and an obligation to the people.
 
You mistake my intentions, Fred. I don't care if the person is from the Republican party-which, incidentally was a "3rd party" who pushed for Lincoln, or the Martian party.
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I'd ask you to name the two main parties at that time, but there were none. Being a candidate in a party that has a remote chance of winning is far different from being a member of a party that has no chance of having any influence whatsoever. It's the difference between apples and satellites.
Take a look around-people like Teddy the drunken swimmer get re elected to term after term. I'm not necessarily a fan of term limits, but I do believe a real campaign reform act to address issues of power is needed. Maybe an oath of poverty to keep the powerful from becoming moreso.
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I have looked around at people like Teddy. Teddy makes my point perfectly. At least 51% of people from Massachusetts are morally bankrupt; that's why they can vote to put a man into a position of leadership that everyone knows killed a young woman in a drunken stupor. Can the souls of those people be saved by some whack-job third party? No! Can work be done on the people of Massachusetts themselves, so that they couldn't even bear the thought of voting for someone like Edward M.Kennedy? Maybe. I had to give up there myself almost 11 years ago. I knew my liberty was in jeopardy in a state filled with amoral people. I had to move to a place where most people had a sense of decency.
I have voted Republican since Nixon, but a party faithful I am no longer. So far as work to make things happen, I belong to and contribute to several 2nd Amendment groups, teach people responsible firearms handling on my own dime and time, a life member of the DAV for losing a leg in the line of duty, and donate time to veterans affairs. I regularly e-mail and write to my elected representatives from Austin to the White House. My personal price of freedom has been rather expensive, but liberty always is. I have 3 children in the military and one who can't wait until he is old enough to serve-and I did nothing to encourage them to join. They do it because they see a duty and an obligation to the people.
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I commend you and your children for your/their service.
 
Wow, Fred! Did not know you had to put up with Taxachucetts-that must have been rough, especially if thats where you're from. I pretty much did the same thing and escaped from Michigan and straight into the arms of Uncle Sugar. Then came the 70's, Detroit mayor Coleman, and I knew the land I grew up in wasn't what I would be returning to. Colorado was nice in a lot of ways, but Pat Schroeder really didn't do it for me, so I ended up landing in Texas.
Do you really feel like the people in Mass. are just totally gone, or is it another case of "daddy voted for him"? I suspect in the case of Ted, I would have no choice but to vote 3rd party. Being where I am now, I hear there are actually Democrats who believe in RKBA :eek: . Must have been a mutant strain of them I guess.
I do like your cental point of getting people to THINK before they vote. One of the reasons I will never pull a straight party handle again. Thats how the RINO's get in.......
Where is Barry Goldwater when you need him?
 
I was born in MA, returned home for ten more years after the Navy, and after Dukakis lost in '88 everything went to hell on an exponentially spiraling downward curve. The state's economy went right down the tubes, and rather than face the fact that it was due to the ever expanding nanny-state, they decided that the best course of action was to go harder to the political left.

I had to get out. I'm from the western part of MA, and things weren't as bad there in terms of morality, but there wasn't much in terms of employment. I ended up in central MA for almost a decade, but as one goes east in MA the corruption (politically/morally/spiritually) gets worse and worse. Which is not to say that there aren't good and decent people there. What I can't understand though, is how a good person can live in a place like Boston knowing that the public school systems there give instructions on proper "fisting" techniques during sex education classes. As I said, I had to get out.

MA was the cradle of our Republic. Now it's our diaper bin. The people who still live there are beset on all sides by people who demand that the state give them the wealth of others. They demand that the state control the purchase/ownership/use of firearms in a way that only a handful of other states have dared to.

MA elects people like Bawney Fwank; who once ran a male prostitution ring out of his D.C. townhouse... oh, wait, that's right! I forgot. It was his boyfriend that was running the prostitution ring. Bawney had no idea that the young men running in and out of the place at all times of the day were prostitutes. Nudge nudge wink wink. :rolleyes:

Then of course there is Uncle Teddy. When he isn't giving seminars on drinking and diving; he is busy being re-elected by landslides.

We mustn't forget Frenchie. He was even the Lt. Governor of MA at one time. He's never once missed an opportunity to vote to steal our liberty, he's slightly left of Chairman Mao, and the folks in MA LOVE him. Go figure.

Tragic really. In the final analysis though, it allowed me to move on to much, much, much better things, in a better climate, and with better opportunities.

Now if we could just get the Commiefornians and New Englanders, and the New Yawkahs who sing the praises of the dens of liberal iniquity that they fled to GO HOME!!! Everything would be perfect. :D
Democrats who believe in RKBA
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Yep! Problem is that when a pro-RKBA Democrat gets elected, the anti-RKBA Demonrats gain power. Once they have a majority, we, and the pro-Demos are screwed!
I do like your cental point of getting people to THINK before they vote. One of the reasons I will never pull a straight party handle again. Thats how the RINO's get in.......
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I agree that RINOs are a plague and a pestilence on the Earth, but one of the things that must be added into the mix is the element of political majority in the legislature. The group with the majority makes the rules, and the rules can sometimes make all the difference. Which is not to say that a RINO like Jumpin' Jim Jeffords won't make Murphy's Law ring true. Nothing is ever certain.


I sometimes miss the place where I grew up, but by definition Americans are pioneers. So it's adios Massachewsh***! Hello to the big wide west! :D
 
Fred, I know thats gotta hurt, knowing your home will never resemble what it did growing up. At least for now, anyway. And thank YOU for your service as well. Just so ya know-there are a few people back there worth talkin to.
I provide technical support for field telco engineers, and was working with a couple of great guys in the Needham area overnight.

Funny to listen to, one was USMCR and the other was USNR, and between gettin the work done they were slingin good natured insults as servicemen do. Both of them want to head west so they can get out of the pollution they call politics and raise their kids.

Strange, my huntin buddies are from all over the place-Texas, the catskills, Alabama and California. Doesn't matter where you were raised, all you have to do is fill the room with kids who grew up in the country, and there is a party goin on! Too bad the government can't be that way.
 
I'm with Fred on this one

I'm a conservative, and I haven't agreed with everything Bush has done, playing nice with fat Teddy(God bless Dick Cheney for telling him off), signing the incumbent protection act etc. But George is no Ronald, he is not conservative. Realizing that, I am concerned that other conservatives mis-read him in the first place and because of that will vote for a candidate who has no chance as a way to make a "statement". That plays perfectly into the Mein Kempf party plans (you know the party that believes that if they say it, it must be true) and gives Kerry a chance. That is one scary proposition. I have no doubt that George would sign the bill if it got sent to him. What we've got to do is lobby to prevent that from happening, replace the Rhino's in the house and Senate and find a conservative leader for the next election. If Kerry gets in we'll have our hands full of empowered "rights" groups like the million morons/hgc. Beyond fighting them face to face, we'll be dealing once again with their legislative attempts. :(
Maybe I'm getting to old for this s***, time to try some new s***
 
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