Rep Murtha and Iraq

Thank you gentlemen, you validated my observation.

With the deficit climbing, huge bills for disaster relief/cleanup and regular folks suffering because of high gas/oil/natl gas prices, the politicians slipped a pay raise for themselves in under the radar by focusing attention elsewhere.
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The deficit is actually declining due to increased revenuse caused by the growing economy.

Point #3 is strictly partisan kool-aid. The Senators were on record loud and clear that they were authorizing use of force ->only<- with the expectation that it would be used diplomatically through the U.N. The statements are in the Congressional record. So was Bush wrong to cross the UN? No. But he was wrong to create a power vacuum there without putting any thought into how it was to be filled.
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You obviously missed the bill they voted on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...se_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq


Maybe so. But who was lying to the British, the French, the Russians, the Germans, the Israelis and the Saudis? ALL of these seperate nations intellegence agencies believed Saddam had WMD's.
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Saddam did have WMD. Contrary to what our media and government has told you people. They just weren't there when we got there. Charles Duelfer extensively detailed massive military truck traffic into Syria, going to the Bakarra valley as we were invading Iraq.

While this only causes speculation about what was on the trucks.... i personally know that it was rockets, artillery shells, and other ordinance. And i know it was incinerated in the Bakarra valley. How do i know? Well... lets just say i was privy to some photos a while back at the office of a CIA/NSA Analyist i know. He's also a former US Ambassador. Names or further information will not be discussed here. ;)
 
I obviously disagree.
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Indeed. So far, the terrorists have yet to win any kind of tactical or strategic victory. The only way they can win, is through the liberal/left's propaganda causing us to cut and run. Eventually, the Islamic world will get tired of sending it's sons to die to kill innocent musilms. That day, judging from top-level commanders going on suicide missions, seems to be very close.

but from the record it is clear that the analysis the Senate saw was definitely skewed.
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If it was, then it was skewed across the whole world. Everyone around the world believed Saddam had current stockpiles of WMD. Everyone. So every intelligence agency in the whole world was part of some evil neo-con conspiracy to let Bush attack Iraq? Nonsense.

Point #3 is strictly partisan kool-aid
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Are you stating that Bush didn't give Saddam 14 months to come clean, or that he was in violation of UN resolutions for 10 years? Or did you just ignore that part?

What about Cheney's Halliburton stock options
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Just the kind of lie I was talking about. Cheney gets deferred compensation from his time working there, he doesn't get a dime more or less a day sooner or later because of events. That was all settled well before 2000. Again, there's not one shread of evidence that anyone in the administration made so much as a dollar from the war, although the liberal/left keeps lying about it.
 
Cactus,
Maybe so. But who was lying to the British, the French, the Russians, the Germans, the Israelis and the Saudis? ALL of these seperate nations intellegence agencies believed Saddam had WMD's.
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We were. They concurred based on our intelligence assessments, not their own Look it up yourself.
And while we're on the subject of Germany, how thin does an excuse have to be for the Germans to not want to fight?

I guess we should just disband the CIA and let you handle all intellegence matters then.
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The CIA was just fine. The interpretation was intentionally skewed over their heads.
And like it or not I was correct.

The "peacenik librul" probably believes it because they (and apparently you too) don't know that VP Cheney divested ALL of his Halliburton holdings prior to taking office in 2003!
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Not what I heard.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/25/news/companies/cheney/?cnn=yes
And if you read the rest of what I wrote, I said *I* think it's immaterial.
He does have Halliburton stock. Lots of it. But he has signed an agreement to donate the proceeds from it to charity. Not divested exactly, but close enough. Of course, liberals aren't money savvy enough to understand the concept.
 
Sorry bro. But Vladimir Putin's intelligence on Iraqi WMD was NOT from American sources.


And if you guys actually read the Gulf War Resolution passed by the US Congress, you'd know there was a hell of a lot more to this war than WMD.

Saddam supported, funded, and armed terrorist groups. He Violated the 1991 Cease fire agreement hundreds of times. Saddam got what he deserved.... Remember... those who harbor and support terrorists will be treated the same as the terrorists themselves!

http://www.husseinandterror.com/
 
Rebar,
That's because they're not fighting a tactical set-piece war. How many 'tactical strategic victories' did the VietCong have?

next point answered above.

My beef with the Kool Aid is that you blindly state that Saddam "chose not to" comply. Kinda hard to prove the destruction of WMDs you don't have. And if there was any possible way the WMDs flew the coop to Syria the WH would be trumpeting it loud and clear. Sounds so much better than "oops".
WMDs in Syria is a pipe dream.

final point answered above.

Wow...you folks really take offense to people bad-mouthing this administration, huh? Too bad. You should back someone who's not so incompetent next time.
Your turn :D
 
Yup. Say....where is Ol' Pooty-poot anyway? Not in Iraq, is he? :rolleyes:

You see, this isn't about Saddam getting what he deserved. Nobody on either side is arguing that. Certainly not me.
What I'm saying is that it's downright stupid to take out the Sunni-controlled buffer state in a Shi'a region without a damn good reason. And if you do you'd better have a solid plan to stabilize the power vacuum you're creating. "Welcome us as liberators" indeed. :rolleyes:
Dubya should've taken a page from his dad. He knew why this was irresponsible. That's why he didn't allow himself to get suckered into this mess.
But now that we're in it we need to get our sh%t in one sock. The stakes are higher than most of you realize.
 
Oh, and as to the 'evil neo-con conspiracy' crack:
Perhaps it'd be easier to dismiss such charges out of hand if they didn't have their own website containing their plan
to remake the middle east through some bulls^&t 'domino theory of democracy that doesn't hold water.
Oh, and publicly announcing their wish to knock off Saddam years before this war. And, you know....signing it.
Because if you take a president who doesn't read the papers and only takes advice from his inner circle and surround him with these people it shouldn't be a surprise that they'll lead him to do what they want.

Kind of a dead giveaway, isn't it? :rolleyes:
Evil? No. Just sadly misguided because these people know f*%k-all about foreign policy.
 
How many 'tactical strategic victories' did the VietCong have?
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They had one big loss - TET, where the Viet Cong was destroyed as a fighting force, and the North took over the whole fight. Who's going to take over when the terrorists are destroyed as a fighting force? Iran, Syria? Nope.
Kinda hard to prove the destruction of WMDs you don't have.
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All he had to do was comply with the relevant resolutions, which he failed to do, even under the threat of military force.
You should back someone who's not so incompetent next time.
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That's a laughable statement. President Gore, President Kerry? Those losers make Bush look like George Washington and Albert Einstein wrapped into one. The shoe actually fits better on the other foot, let the democrats nominate better people then those fools, then they can complain about Bush.

And where's the liberal/left's policy to win the war? All I hear is "Bush lied", "War for oil" and "Halliburton!Halliburton!Halliburton!" from that side, not a word about an actual plan, except cut and run.
 
Wow...you folks really take offense to people bad-mouthing this administration, huh? Too bad. You should back someone who's not so incompetent next time.
Your turn
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We only had one choice. Everyone on the left was well past the definition of "incompetent".

http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/11/17/johnkerryhardball/

I had a great video of kerry talking about his plan for a plan to have a plan, about a plan. But i can't find the damned link. Its a great one!



And where's the liberal/left's policy to win the war? All I hear is "Bush lied", "War for oil" and "Halliburton!Halliburton!Halliburton!" from that side, not a word about an actual plan, except cut and run.
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LoL. I love hearing these morons keep repeating "bush lied". it really makes my day.

I guess Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain, Russia, UK, Jordan, Israel, etc all lied as well?

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=10537
 
The shoe actually fits better on the other foot, let the democrats nominate better people then those fools, then they can complain about Bush.
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And just when you think I'm gonna argue...I don't :D You're absolutely right on this point.
So that's my choice? Dumb 'n' Dumber? Kind of a crappy set of alternatives, isn't it? Is it really an excuse to say "well, yeah our guy's dumber'n a box o' rocks, but lookit the other guy"?
Because I don't think that's an excuse. I think we should be nominating people that are actually qualified for the post. Crazy, I know...
 
My definiton of winning a war is that you you have destroyed the enemy and he is incapable or unwilling to fight anymore. Hostilities have ceased. That is not the case in Iraq and we are already making plans for troop rotations in FY 2009.

More Iraqi civilains ans US Troops died today :(

Vietnam was a test of wills....we know how that ended.

Screw test of wills.....open the giant can of whoopass and get it over with.

We have not won the war yet........we are still fighting.

Side note:

The USMC has recalled 18,000 Interceptor Vests in additon to the 5000 that are under investigation already. This was in the Marine Corps Times. Seems that some were tested and they failed. When the original records were pulled they had failed some tests but were shipped anyway.

In addtion there are rumors that the Interceptor program is going to be cancelled by the Army. The Army refuses to deny or affirm it.

Only the best for our boys fighting in the military :mad:
 
"Murtha, 73, is not one of the Capitol's many dandies; he is a large, leathery, no-nonsense kind of guy who makes his own grammatical rules. He won two Purple Hearts as a combat Marine in the Korean and Vietnam wars".

In my book he can speak about whatever, whenever he wants too he has earned it.

I didnt get a chance to read his speech yet, but I heard he got choked up a couple of times when talking about incidents involving soldiers. Mr Murtha has been there and done it twice in Korea and Vietnam. This war has probably brought up a lot of bad memories for Mr. Murtha and seeing young troops injured and wounded probably hasnt helped. He also remembers what the outcomes in those two wars were and the politics involved....

his thought process is very simple

either win or get the hell out.
 
I think we should be nominating people that are actually qualified for the post.
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No argument from me on that. I've said before, the time to get involved is on the local/state level, find and promote candidates when they first get started, not after they've been bought and paid for.
My definiton of winning a war is that you you have destroyed the enemy and he is incapable or unwilling to fight anymore.
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That would be ideal, but it's not that kind of war. PC or not, we're fighting a cultural war, a war between Western values and Islamic values, a war that really has been ongoing for 1400 years. The only way we can win, without forced conversion and/or genocide, is to "infect" them with the "virus" of Western democracy and values. It can work, but it's going to take a long time.
 
Another Vote

Congress should have another vote on the war. But there needs to be something added this time. We start pulling our troops out, then we start drilling in Alaska, off shore, and any place that we think has oil around here. Regulation will be eased so that more oil refinaries can be built. All other regulations about selling and formulation of gasoline will be minimized.

I wonder how many of the cut-and-run politicians would agree to this. Becoming more self-sufficent in energy would go a long ways in reducing our needs and involvement in the Middle East.
 
Sorry, energy independence had already been sacrificed to pass the deficit-reduction bill.
Those changes came on top of concessions last week when Republican leaders, to appease moderates in their party, dropped provisions to open ANWR to oil drilling and to allow states to lift a moratorium on oil drilling off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts.
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Forget about oil, what we need is a crash program of building enough nuclear power plants so that we no longer need oil or natural gas to generate electricity.
 
And I repeat:
This isn't about oil, this is about successfully getting the toothpaste back in the tube.
We have eliminated the Sunni-dominated buffer state in an otherwise Shi'a region. This shaky new country is the only thing standing between us and a nuclear armed Caliphate.
I guarantee you that you don't want to see that.
 
It doesn't. That's a whole other discussion for another thread.
But I'll explain what's going on with a picture.
mapislamicempireeras0wi.jpg


And Iraq is right in the middle of it. What do you suppose these folks are going to do once they're unified in territory, religion, and political will?
 
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