Removing powder from active blank rounds

If I read the original post right, Collector is hoping to use both the powder and the primers with his black powder firearm (post #7).

The powder might work and might not work or might blow things (your gun and your hand and your face) up.

From your post #7 I infer that your black powder firearm is a muzzleloader? If I am wrong about that, skip the next two paragraphs.

The primers definitely will not work.

Primers for percussion muzzle loaders (proper term "Percussion Caps") are manufactured differently than primers for fixed ammunition (cartridges) and do not interchange. The chemicals inside them used to be the same stuff, and may still be the same, but the construction of the primers themselves are different. Physically, you are EXTREMELY unlikely to fit a primer designed for a cartridge fit on the percussion nipple. One is an 'innie" and the other is an "outie".

I have found a tubing cutter a LOT faster and easier and with less metal shavings fouling things up than a hacksaw to cut metal. But I don't open cartridges that way, anyway.

Lost Sheep
 
collectors said:
SL1 i just noticed your reply it is totally the opposite to TKGLAZIE, so if i push the primer out slowly, and if it fits the other cartridge you feel it will work?
Click to expand...
Primers are designed to be set off by a sharp blow. Slow pressure rarely sets one off. But it can happen.

Primers are designed to be "pre-stressed" (note: this may not be the proper term--of-art, but you get the idea) when they are seated. The anvil inside the primer squishes into the priming compound and makes it even more sensitive to the next (impact) force.

Pushing such a primer out of the primer pocket may further stress the priming compound, but, not being a sharp blow, is still unlikely to set it off, if the pressure is slowly applied and not too great. (Wear eye protection, hearing protection, gloves and drape a heavy cloth over your press for maximum safety.)

Reinstalling the primer so double-stressed into another cartridge's primer pocket can be done, but using that primer in a cartridge whose performance is critical to a hunt, a competitiion, or self-defense is not the best idea. The brissance is now suspect, even if the function of the primer isn't.

Blanks are often manufactured with Berdan primers. These are more difficult to remove than Boxer primers. Boxer primers have a single flash hole and the depriming pin can easily find the hole (centered in the cartridge) and push the primer out. Berdan cartridges have two flash holes and have to be pried out from the backside (which will ruin the primer for re-use if it doesn't set it off) or pressed out with hydraulic pressure (and the water will very likely ruin the primer).

If you haven't already decided to drop the idea, buy more health and accident insurance.

If your black powder gun is a cartridge arm, is it original or a replica? If original, find out if it has significant collector's value before shooting it, or even cleaning it with more than a little oil.

The ammunition intended of CASS (Cowboy Action Shooting Sports) is smokeless powder, but loaded so as not to over-stress black powder guns. So, if it is replica gun, you are probably good to go with CASS ammunition.

Tell us what you have, please?

Lost Sheep
 
Black powder is kind of neat because the burn rate stays the same whether or not it is under pressure.

Cutting into a case that may or may not contain black powder to salvage some primers IMO is foolish.

Edit: Cartridge brass has an acceptable allowance of up to 2% iron.


Sent from HenseMod6.
 
IMPORTANT NOTE ON POWDER IN BLANK CARTRIDGES

Depending on the age of these cartridges, and especially if they are US military loaded between the late 1890s and the middle 1950s, trying to reuse the powder in them could result in damage to your gun, serious bodily injury or even DEATH.

Most blank cartridges from that time frame was loaded with Hercules EC Flash Powder.

EC Flash Powder may be the only smokeless powder ever to be used for small arms rounds that is truly an explosive. During World War II it was used as a substitute filling for US fragmentation grenades at various times.

Use of even miniscule amounts of EC Flash Powder behind a solid projectile can result in a wrecked gun; use of anything approaching a standard load can result in serious injury or DEATH.

EC Flash Powder was phased out of military service starting in the 1950s, IIRC, and replaced with conventional pistol powders.

I believe that the standard powder for use in 5.56 military blanks is IMR 700x, which is probably one of the reasons why military blanks create so much soot.
 
"Cartridge brass has an acceptable allowance of up to 2% iron."

Uhm... say what?

TWO percent?

That would make it harder than marine brass (Aich's alloy), which is quite hard, not very ductile, but quite corrosion resistant. I can't imagine that a 2% alloy would be at all suitable for cartridge brass.

It's also expensive and hardly anyone is making it anymore.

A Muntz metal alloy, which contains traces of iron (normally 0.something to 0.0something would be a LOT more suitable for cartridge brass.
 
De-capping live primers is one of the most dangerous things you can do in reloading.
Anyone that disagrees needs to take a class in remedial reloadiing.
 
De-capping live primers is one of the most dangerous things you can do in reloading.
Anyone that disagrees needs to take a class in remedial reloading.
Click to expand...

Oh? You of course know everything,,--RIGHT? Is it okay if I do it, since I've BEEN doing it for over 50 years, without one single problem!

CAUTION, I MIGHT CAUSE YOU TO THINK!

What has to happen to a primer to fire it? Might this do it?
1. It needs to be seated in a primer pocket, in a brass case.
2. That brass case needs to be in a chamber that holds it tightly.
3. A bolt with it's firing pin, or breechface, needs to be holding said case tightly in the chamber.
4. A hammer or spring has to power that POINTED firing pin with a LOT of force to slam into that primer, crushing the explosive pellet causing it to detonate.

Okay, where do ANY of the above conditions exist in a reloading press while slowly pressing out a primer using either a sizer die or a decapper die? NO WHERE!

If pressing out a primer is so dangerous, (decapping a live primer), why is that so few primers are popped when pressing them into shells sideways and upside down? BECAUSE a slow push will not detonate a primer.
 
He's actually right, depriming live primers is prolly the most dangerous part of reloading. Even though it is not very dangerous and only a noob could mess it up.

Hand loading is one of the safest hobbys out there. Safer than letting your child learn to ride a bike. Safer than skiing, snowboarding, or football...
 
The Dillon instruction materials for my XL 650 press are very explicit about this point. They say, emphatically, that one should NEVER de-prime a case with a live primer. Never. That is repeated throughout the instructions and is emphasized in their instructional video, too. I'll take THEIR word for it and politely but surely give Dillon the final say over the kind folks who post on here that it is safe to de-cap a live primer.
 
De-capping live primers is one of the most dangerous things you can do in reloading.
Anyone that disagrees needs to take a class in remedial reloading.
Click to expand...

Please inform the rest of us just what is the catastrophic consequences would by if per chance a primer goes off while decapping said primer. Please note the anvil of the primer is held in place by the punch pressing the complete primer out. Remember also the shell casing and primer cup is held in the die whether it be caliber specific or the universal type. The only thing that can possibly fly is the primer cup moving down the hole and groove of the ram. In my presses it would exit towards the back away from the operator.

One has much more danger traveling to and from the range to shoot the reloaded ammo.

All of the above is food for thought & uses common sense!
 
I believe it's more dangerous dumping a double charge and shooting it or getting messed up and putting wrong powder in case than to deprime a live primer.
 
The Dillon instruction materials for my XL 650 press are very explicit about this point. They say, emphatically, that one should NEVER de-prime a case with a live primer. Never. That is repeated throughout the instructions and is emphasized in their instructional video, too. I'll take THEIR word for it and politely but surely give Dillon the final say over the kind folks who post on here that it is safe to de-cap a live primer.
Click to expand...

You are being serious right?

What in heavens name are you reloading for!!!!!!!!!!!

Does not the instructions with most any newly acquired new firearm state beyond a doubt to never shoot reloaded ammo in their firearm. I know all of mine do.

Think it may just be the companies protecting themselves from lawsuits.

Just checked a newly purchased battery charger for AA battery charging. It states I'm to wear Safety Goggles while operating the charger. My bag of peanuts also seems to need to inform me that the product contains Nuts, Peanuts to be exact.

Folks, we need to have common sense come to the fore front here.

Be careful behind the wheel.
 
"Please inform the rest of us just what is the catastrophic consequences would by if per chance a primer goes off while decapping said primer."

And the various posts about Dillon...

Depriming a case with a live primer should NEVER EVER be done on a press that has a primer feed mechanism with loaded primers in it.

NEVER.

If the primer, for whatever reason, does happen to pop, it can ignite all of the primers in the primer mechanism, possible even powder in the measure.

Years ago I knew a man who was almost killed by a primer tube explosion. He was, I think, using an older press that didn't have blast tube protection like modern presses. He lost sight in one eye, both ear drums were punctured, and I think he carried at least one primer embedded in his skull until the day he died.

And yes, primers CAN go off during the normal priming process.

Rare as all get out, but possible. Possibly due to static electricity, possibly due to an accumulation of primer compound dust in the priming mechanism, possibly due to Atropos being bored and deciding to have a little fun.

That's why I never work with more than 20 or 30 primers in my Lee press at any time, and I wash the priming system components regularly to remove any possible accumulation of dust.
 
OK Mike, I'll buy that explanation. Had not considered the possibilities with regards to a progressive press.

One of the problems of folks making blanket statements and others not wraping their brains around all the options.
 
The only primers I had go off is when I was using the OLD Hand Banging set up ; ) PS Scares the crappola out of me, That's about it. :D
Y/D
 
Survey says...

Just Don't Do It.

No part of what you are doing is 100% safe, you are talking several steps which in combination may be a lot less safe than any one of these steps taken as an individual process. A failure in any one process equals a small KABOOM or perhaps a chain of KABOOMS. (Kaboom is not good, KABOOM very not good.)

Just buy some powder. And primers. And brass. Guaranteed to be cheaper than a new set of fingers or eyes. If you live somewhere where such things can not be legally purchased you probably live somewhere where what you propose to do is also not legal.
 
I think that as a general rule, you should do as your manual states. If ones confidence level with hand-loading does not include enough confidence to operate outside the box while still maintaining safety, stick to the basic rules. That's what your instruction manual is for. If it says don't do it, don't do it.

As ones mechanical aptitude increases, one finds that it is possible to expound on the manual, and with relative complete safety. Most people can not wrap their mind around that. Engineer types can and people who are highly mechanically inclined and lots of common sense.

A man has to know his limitations. When in doubt, go by the Manual. Dillon has great manual and left me with no questions or difficulty on setup. Don't question the manual because of Mad Scientist types! Be careful.
 
Buy a used single stage press, my last 3 were given to me free. Every reloader should have a single stage press anyway. Then buy a universal decapping die, should already have one anyway if you do much reloading, very handy to have.

Then deprime to your hearts content. Remember, push not slam. No further problems.
 
This is one of those dang fool junior high kid stories.

The part about EC blank powder is true!!Never put it behind a bullet.It will blow up a gun,and it was used for grenade powder.

Those fine old 30-06 blanks were loaded with it.The ones that run a Browning 1919 or Garand with blank adapters!!

But,if a kid or adult dumps the powder out of a bunch of those blanks,and then decides to center punch pop the old primers,you can find one that wasn't quite empty.

the punch stuck in the garage roof,brass shards took of part of a buddies ear and messed up a finger.

Now,if that happened inside a reloading die,could be real bad.

I have carefully decapped live primers with no ill effects,but I do not re-use the primers.I do not reload to make substandard ammo.

Old American Rifleman mags,etc in their tech columns always said blank brass was often reject for ball,and recomended against using it for loads.Guessing at any powder identity is very bad practice,and EC blank powder will hurt or kill you.Are these military blanks?Are the primers crimped?Not much chance you will have a re-usable primer.
If you actually look forward to hack sawing a bunch of brass,may I respectfully suggest you have too much time on your hands?

You can get a hundred primers,brand new,great quality primers,for under $4.

What are you paying for hacksawblades?

No disrespect intended,but if the plan is make do and work around,substitute,etc....reloading is not the best activity.Raise cats,garden,cook,brew beer, demo derby cars,but reloading ...
 
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