Removing copper or lead fouling

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I have a S&w MP40 barrel with what I would consider substantial copper fouling. I have cleaned it several times with Montana Extreme Copper Killer....It persists. I have recently loaded up 900 rounds using CFE Pistol powder to see if that helps. A new barrel isn't that expensive (about $50) and I bought one, but I was wondering if y'all had a trick to remove fouling. I can get rid of it but I'll probably ruin the barrel.

Is there anything else I can do? It doesn't shoot that poorly and I'm hoping the CFE powder does the trick. Beyond that I don't know a non-destructive way to fix this.
 
The Lewis Lead Remover is the real thing for getting the lead out completely, quickly and easily but not aware of how it works on copper. It cleans the barrel with round brass (I believe) patches. It comes with the necessary rod and a separate adapter is required for each caliber. An adapter can also be used with a rifle cleaning rod for removing lead from rifle barrels.
 
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Are you seeing copper fouling in the barrel or on the patches?

If it's on the patches it could be a false positive from using a brass jag, bore brush... The copper solvent will eat away at them also and turn the patches blue or blue green.

If it's in the barrel, how bad is it after shooting 10, 20, 50 rounds? What have you used to base it on?
 
Put about 3 wet patches of Butchs bore shine in and let it set overnight. It gets lead out of my vaqueros and Blackhawks. Also got all the copper out of a 7mm mag rifle. Doesn't hurt to leave overnight and really cleans lead and. Operation great for me.
 
Are you seeing copper fouling in the barrel or on the patches?
Click to expand...

Both, it is a 4.125" removable barrel, don't even need a bore scope to see it. I think it happened shooting some cheapo stuff I was given...A while back.

I haven't shot many of the CFE loads yet so I will see if it does what it says it will do. I may try that butches bore shine idea too, because copper killer isn't helping.

Oh and most of the fouling is at the muzzle. It's the worst on the right side of the barrel as you would hold it to fire.
 
Try a Lead Away cloth cut into patches. You will need to use a smaller jag than the caliber due to the thickness of the cloth. I think there may be patches available also, but I buy the cloth. Also use them on revolver cylinders and forcing cones, cleans like nothing else I have tried.
 
Despite all the ads and claims of the snake oils out there only mayce 2 solvents that will work well on copper.

KG 12 is the best in any tests for copper.

There is no real solvent for lead removal except an acid which I would not recommend.

It takes mechanical removal like a chore boy or lewis lead remover. Be sure to change your bore brush often If they do not fit tight they are doing nothing,

http://kgcoatings.worldsecuresystem...ated-products/cleaning/kg-12-big-bore-cleaner
 
What you want to get for copper fouling is Sweets 7.62, and just swab out the bore until the patches come out clean. It's been around for a long time because is just flat-out works.
 
Ok, if its copper, its time to go to something that works vs Sweets and all the old time clean (KG12 is another one that is ammonia based)

Get the Bore Tech Eliminator. Anyone that says their clearer works does not have a borescope. I do, it does. Yes I am opinionated on this. Very opinionated.

The guy who did the test I learned from shot and fouled and cleared and check either a borewcopes. His stuff is spot on.

the only adder is that Bore Tech while aimed at copper is a darned good carbon remover. Have a layer of carbon over your copper? That gets em both.

Frankly I think Bore Tech is as good a carbon cleaner as Carbon Killer 2000

The reasons I usually use the CK2K is that I don't want to remove all the copper. Just any nasty build up (old guns mostly)

As long as its just a miner amount its just covering up rougher patches and its going to lay down again. No build up, no issue.

Anything that works on lead is wasted on copper and that's not the issue.
 
Mississippi,
I also use Montana xtreme. I use the 50 bmg special formula. You can let the stuff soak overnight without causing harm to your barrel because it's oil based, unlike many other ammonia cleaners. It was recommended to me by one of the ballisticians because they had seen other ammonia cleaners etch and pit stainless cleaning rods and deduced that this was the safest cleaner of that type.
I usually don't have as much trouble as it sounds like you do with copper fouling. I can usually get down to bare metal in a couple hour soaking sessions and about 20 patches in a regular steel barrel with a few hundred rounds on it. My stainless barrels come clean in one session with little soaking.

As far as using cfe and the new enduron powders. That stuff is suppose to coat your barrel and prevent copper build up. I don't think it actually breaks down or removes it. That's how it was explained to me from our head ballistics guy anyway. This post is already full of good ideas but I hope this helps a bit.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
I'm with Nosler Guy, seen the same thing done many times, done it myself hundreds of times with no damage.
Montana .50 BMG formula will clear ALL the range benches if you drop the bottle!
(Ask me how I know that... :( )
All Montana products have corrosion inhibitors, the .50 BMG is the STRONGEST mix (brings tears to taxadermy animals eyes!).

Stick a cork in the barrel, pour it full of ammonia based cleaner, put a rag over the back end and let it sit.
I guarintee the copper will come loose with a little time...

If you want to go the low volume approach on larger bores, roll a paper towel up and stick it in the bore, then wet it down with copper killer.
You use a little less solvent, but you will have to do it two or three times...
Remember to flip the barrel from side to side, the solvent will pool on the low sides even with a 'Wick'.

Since you are using Montana Extreme cleaner, the ammonia content is correct, works fine in all my rifles.
Haven't seen anything that cleans better other than a battery charger (another story completely)

What took the longest for me to clean out of pistols was the brass jacketed/plated bullets and/or clear coated (corrosion Resistance) on bullets.
That crap doesn't give up like plain copper does.

Two tips here,
One is NYLON bristle brushes that, if at all possible, Do NOT have a brass/bronze wire in the middle.
Metal wire bristles, no matter what metal they are made of bends, ends dull, bristles mat down, nylon won't.

Not that most people take time to hand lap/polish barrels, steel bristles scratch barrels. Just what you need, more places for copper to hide!

I buy metal chamber dummies ('Snap Caps') and put an 'O' ring groove on them, use an ammonia/chemical resistant 'O' ring (any air conditioning supply place) to plug the chamber and fill the barrel up on really dirty bores.
It stinks, but it knock loose ANYTHING in the bore standing upright in the gun rack.
 
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Thanks for all the advice. I have a bunch of the montana x copper killer. I think I will use an old pickle jar, fill it with montana, and let the barrel soak in it.
 
Here is but one test.

Sorry I can not get the chart to print correctly

http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm

Copper Fouling Test
Product Fouling Removal Product Fouling Removal
Accubore Slight Kroil None
Barnes CR-10 Moderate Marksman's Choice MC-7 Slight
BreakFree CLP None Marksman's Choice Copper Solvent Moderate
Butch's Bore Shine Very Slight M-Pro 7 Slight
Ed's Red Very Slight M-Pro 7 Copper Remover High
Hoppes #9 None Pro Tech None
Household Ammonia None Sweets 7.62 Moderate
10% Janitor's Ammonia Moderate to high KG12 High
Master's Bore Cleaner Slight Sam & Dave's #1 Slight to moderate
 
Don't use ammonia on nickel-plated guns, since the plating is over an undercoat of copper. This would logically be true of any copper cleaner deemed effective.
 
Has anyone here done any lapping? Seems like, if you get excessive copper fouling, it's likely due to a rough bore surface. I know this doesn't answer the question of how to remove the fouling, but if the problem persists, maybe you should consider this.
 
The problem with lapping is that it has to be done correctly or else you might cause more harm than good. People use JB compound and run it through their barrels like its a regular tool. It has abrasive compounds in it and if you just run back and forth, what do think it's doing to your barrel?

If you plan on lapping your barrel, talk to the barrel manufacturer first or a gunsmith that knows his stuff. Might save you alot of money in the long run as more people ruin barrels cleaning them then shooting them.
 
I agree with Rule3 and RC20 on this. The ammonia-based copper removers can't hold a candle to some of the newer chelating chemistries. KG12 does have a small amount of ammonia in it to help activate the copper surface, but it is not ammonia-based in the sense of the ammonia being its primary active ingredient. Bore Tech Eliminator has both carbon and copper remover in it, but their C4 carbon remover is stronger on carbon and their C++ copper remover is stronger on copper once you have the carbon out. Because the Bore Tech products are nearly odorless, the house queen doesn't object when I am using them, so they are my go-to cleaners. I haven't had need of a bore brush in several years now. And yes, I have a borescope, too, and can confirm what has been said about these products.

The fact copper is accumulating on one side of the barrel does sound like that spot is extra rough. You can use a jag with JB Bore compound or Iosso Bore Cleaner to do some light surface polishing after the bore is clean. See if that solves it. Fouling usually occurs nearer the throat, but if your muzzle is tighter than your throat, that will also focus fouling there. You should be able to feel a tight spot by slugging the barrel with a pure lead ball or other slug. It may need lapping or firelapping to clear it if it is bad.


Rule3,

This stuff works on lead. Let it sit for an hour and then patch out the crumbly crust that results. I hadn't seen anything this effective on since I stopped using mercury a couple of decades ago. The now obsolete Outer's Foul Out worked, but was a lot of bother to use and was slower.
 
Thanks again guys for all the information. Fortunately this problem is occurring in a $75 pistol barrel and not an expensive rifle barrel. So I'm not too afraid to try something new and see how it works... Plus the barrel has been shot a lot.

But it still shoots decent but if I can clean it up it may get back to shooting like new.
 
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