Remlins in my 336 30-30

That's about par for most factory ammo, in my limited experience. I generally see about 1.5 to 3 MoA with Remington, Federal, and Winchester.
PPU seemed good initially, but turned out to give me the same extraction issues as so many other .30-30 shooters (and a little crow to eat).


The best load I have found for .30 WCF uses a Speer 150 gr HCRN (Hot Cor Round Nose) in FC brass, combined with, of all things... H4895 recovered from old .220 Swift loads.
"Laser" accurate in three Marlin 336s (or off-brand models) and a Remlin 336W. (PoA shifts, but the groups are amazing.)
And it's still safe and nearly as good in R-P or W-W brass.
But, of course.... The Universe hates those of us that discovered that bullet. Speer discontinued it three years ago. :(

I have a box and a half of loaded ammo left. Firing a round feels like throwing diamonds in the trash.


If you find some 150 HCRNs in quantity, snap them up. They just work.


Lately, I've been trying to find a replacement using Speer 170s, Sierra 170s, and Hornady 150s and 170s. (I prefer 170s/180s, but I'll take what shoots.)
Speer and Sierra are looking good. Hornady... the jury is still deliberating about whether to continue. But I did load up another 80 rounds of the best Hornady 170 gr load, a few weeks ago. I need some stuff to burn up while working on turning the Remlin 336W into something decent.
 
While I take the point about lubricated ammo/chambers, "This is a Nambu machine gun. That cap, beside the hopper, is the cap to the oiler." is perhaps not the best example. It is a knockoff of the Hotchkiss except the Japanese could not be bothered to copy the French guns' primary extraction, thus needing oil to run. Stripping cartridges out of rifle clips had to add a mechanical load to the action, too; kewl as it may seem.
Click to expand...

Well these are my pictures and I can post them. There are plenty of examples of mechanisms that used oilers, but I don't necessarily have the pictures loaded yet, or care to. Forgotten guns has these out standing videos of the Schwarlose machine gun and a Nambu,both of which have oilers, someday I will figure out how to link utube videos.

In so far as primary extraction, these delayed or retarded blowback mechanisms did not use "primary extraction" and did not need it. Primary extraction as I understand it occurs with locked breech designs, most particularly turnbolt actions. The action unlocks and moves a couple of thousands before fully extracting the cartridge. I consider this delay undesirable and probably one reason a number of countries used delayed blowback actions with oilers or greased cartridges. Primary extraction takes time, it is in thousand's of a second, but it still takes time. That time could be taken, for example, firing a round, thus slowing the rate of fire.

What I see with post WW1 designs is an emphasis for lighter weapons and faster shooting weapons. The MG42 spat out 22 rounds per second. It could fire 1320 rounds a minute, given a long enough ammunition belt! The barrel would probably be cherry red, but that machine gun was one of the best used in WW2. The old Browning designs were around 300 to 400 rounds a minute. Here is a WW2 era propaganda film proving that our old and slow machine guns are so much better than the faster firing German machine guns. Plus, the added benefit that you did not fire too much ammunition at the enemy. Very environmentally conscious! This is by the same generation of liars that told the American public that greased or oiled ammunition is dangerous. Those German 19 hits on target would arrive so fast it would tear GI's apart like rag dolls. Like getting hit with a shotgun blast of 8mm rounds. Blam! Putting static paper targets up and comparing holes on paper after you walk up, very clever, don't you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtxG4DkBizE

I don't have any data for the delayed blowbacks, but, I believe they were faster than the locked breech alternatives. So, if the mechanism works without primary extraction, who needs primary extraction? What primary extraction do the roller bolts with fluted chambers need? These actions that used oilers or greased cartridges popped the cartridge out of the chamber at the appropriate time. So do the roller bolts with fluted chambers.
 
That's about par for most factory ammo, in my limited experience. I generally see about 1.5 to 3 MoA with Remington, Federal, and Winchester.
PPU seemed good initially, but turned out to give me the same extraction issues as so many other .30-30 shooters (and a little crow to eat).


The best load I have found for .30 WCF uses a Speer 150 gr HCRN (Hot Cor Round Nose) in FC brass, combined with, of all things... H4895 recovered from old .220 Swift loads.
"Laser" accurate in three Marlin 336s (or off-brand models) and a Remlin 336W. (PoA shifts, but the groups are amazing.)
And it's still safe and nearly as good in R-P or W-W brass.
But, of course.... The Universe hates those of us that discovered that bullet. Speer discontinued it three years ago.

I have a box and a half of loaded ammo left. Firing a round feels like throwing diamonds in the trash.


If you find some 150 HCRNs in quantity, snap them up. They just work.


Lately, I've been trying to find a replacement using Speer 170s, Sierra 170s, and Hornady 150s and 170s. (I prefer 170s/180s, but I'll take what shoots.)
Speer and Sierra are looking good. Hornady... the jury is still deliberating about whether to continue. But I did load up another 80 rounds of the best Hornady 170 gr load, a few weeks ago. I need some stuff to burn up while working on turning the Remlin 336W into something decent.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
Click to expand...
Oddly enough, the factory core lokts and win super X's have perfromed very well for the most part--the winchester jacketed round nose hollow point in particular I would jump all over if I could find the bullets anywhere. I just ordered some core lokt 150 bullets--much as I generally dislike rem ammo can't deny it's a good bullet for the 30-30--along with some 170 interlocs and 170 nosler partitions. Didn't get remarkable results with my first go with ftx's--but maybe it was the powder.

4895 is definitely "an oldie but a goodie" --but the big issue with it, in my experience anyway--is that it gets difficult to manage in midsize cases where you have to start compressing loads to get performance.
 
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To belabor the point a bit, the Jap type 11 was gas operated with a locking block propping up the breechblock, not delayed blowback like a Schwartzlose. The type 96 dropped the complicated stripper stripper and had a top box magazine. Still had an oiler, but the type 99 didn't. Wonder why.

Any road, Marlin once assembled a testbed to show their action was tight and their Microgrooves accurate. A 336 action, an unturned barrel blank just threaded and chambered, and a blocky foreend without magazine tube. MOA.
 
The full length mag tube and barrel bands have the potential to drive you nuts sometimes. Too tight, too loose, bad forearm pressure and it can be a challenge to get one of these to shoot. But then some of them like the 1981 model I have will shoot right along side most bolt actions with ammo it likes. But it always shoots into at least a 2" group. Thats good enough for the deer I kill and the way I hunt. And no greasy cases needed.

I just picked up a Marlin/Glenfield model 30D with a half mag tube made in 1968. I had one long ago and stupidly sold it. The first one cost me a flat $100 at a garage sale. The new one cost $365. I can't wait to shoot it.
 
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