Remlin 1894 44 Magnum handliads

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ciwsguy

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So in your opinion, are these grouping about the best I can expect from my 2015 manufactured Remington Marlin, Ballard rifling with .4305 bore shooting .433 Diameter gas check bullets with a moderate load of Winchester 296 powder? This was indoor, 50 yards from a bench rest. I’ve not really been satisfied with this rifle since I bought it new. The rifle has a 1.5-4.5 x 24 scope. Groups with a skinner peep sight wasn’t much different.
What do you think?
 

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I'm in agreement with you . If I shot those groups at 50 yards , from a rest with a scope
... and thats what they looked like , I would be unhappy .
Both groups seem to be 2" X 3" ... First thing I would do is try some factory ammo just to get a baseline for accuracy . Then check the rifle all over , tighten screws , check barrel crown and then on to load development . Ballard rifling usually does well with cast ...
Maybe it's simply a matter of finding the right "magic" cast bullet load it likes !
Gary
 
How "Moderate" is
...a moderate load of Winchester 296 powder...
Click to expand...
?

[That] `94Marlin (new Rem/Ballard) prints ≤1" at 50 w/ the heavy bullet at 0.432"
Note also: Lyman #2/BN-15 good up past 1,620 on a plain base.
Superhard is not req'd as long as the bullet fits....
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5981900&postcount=5

But here's your problem:
"MBW heat treated, BHN 22"

Commercial casters love to advertise their "Hardness"
Air-cooled Lyman#2 MAX for hardness -- NO harder
 
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Factory ammo shoots horribly in this rifle, regardless of brand and bullet size (weight). That’s why I started hand loading. Since I’m shooting .433 bullets (gas checked) I was somewhat concerned about over pressure, so kept the load around 22 grains of W296. No overpressure signs with that load.
 
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So what do you suggest, BHN 18?
I have read others say with an oversized bore and slow 1:38 twist drive the bullet hard. Is that not really needed? Wondering
 
SOFT
12-15
maybe even wheelweight @11


That 22-superhard bullet alloy isn't really molding itself to the bore/groove at
anything but more pressure than the alloy can hang onto those grooves
 
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ciwsguy said:
So what do you suggest, BHN 18?
I have read others say with an oversized bore and slow 1:38 twist drive the bullet hard. Is that not really needed? Wondering
Click to expand...
Pushing the bullet harder/faster increases the rpm of the bullet and can increase stability and accuracy. I did not see a bullet weight listed how heavy are you shooting?
 
… so kept the load around 22 grains of W296…
Click to expand...

That’s below the starting load for Hodgdon data for a 240 jacketed bullet and could be a cause of the accuracy issue. H110/W296 requires near-full power charges to burn consistently.

That said, those groups are only about 2” horizontal with less vertical - not terrible. How is the OP benching the rifle - is he holdong the forend firmly, resting the forend on the bags, being as consistent as possible in holding pressure? These light rifles can be sensitive to bench technique. I hope the OP doesn’t expect to shoot moa groups, as some posters claim is normal. That won’t happen, and 1”-2” groups at 50 yards may be as good as it gets.




.
 
From my reading and testing in my henry, low loads of h110/w296 dont play nice. They just dont combust evenly or fully. My hornady manual listed a start of 20.7 with a max of 24.5. But hodgdon reccomeds a start of 23.0 and max of 24.0 based on my testing do far, that is where you want to be.
 
I've never had any accuracy from H110/296 at less than max book. I also noticed that a hard bullet pull together with a hard crimp gives the best accuracy.
 
You fellas must be looking at the pistol data. I’m looking at the 44 magnum rifle data. 22 grains of W296 is a middle weight load. As I said before, with a large diam bullet, I was a bit concerned about overpressure, so chose a mid load. See rifle 44 mag data from Hornady X.
No, it’s not the rest (concrete) indoors with a high quality front support and a rear bag under the buttstock. It’s a rock solid sight picture. Not the scope or the mount, as all screws are torqued to mfr spec. All action screws are tight.
No, I don’t expect 1MOA groups with a lever gun, I know better than that, but this thing ought to be able to put a decent group together, maybe about one inch at 50 yds.
 
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ciwsguy said:
You fellas must be looking at the pistol data. I’m looking at the 44 magnum rifle data. 22 grains of W296 is a middle weight load. As I said before, with a large diam bullet, I was a bit concerned about overpressure, so chose a mid load. See rifle 44 mag data from Hornady X.
No, it’s not the rest (concrete) indoors with a high quality front support and a rear bag under the buttstock. It’s a rock solid sight picture. Not the scope or the mount, as all screws are torqued to mfr spec. All action screws are tight.
No, I don’t expect 1MOA groups with a lever gun, I know better than that, but this thing ought to be able to put a decent group together, maybe about one inch at 50 yds.
Click to expand...
I too used hornady data, it did not perform well for me in my Henry. While i do not believe it to be unsafe, imho they go way too low with h110/w296. Look at hodgdons website they have rifle loads for 44mag as well, 240g bullet, start 23.0 max 24.0.

H110/w296 needs a full charge to burn fully/cleanly. And with your 1:38 and 240s you need as much speed as you can get to stabilize the bullets.

Didn't see anyone else ask. Im assuming you slugged your bore, not measured with calipers? And you are using magnum primers correct?

Even with a .4305 bore I would be shooting .431 to .432s.
 
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Ok, a couple of questions. First, what primers are you using? Second, how close to max charge are you using? Now, I'm not versed in .44 Mag reloading, I reload for .357 Mag. But I do use H110, which is identical to W296. To get good performance, you need to run almost up to maximum charges and use *MAGNUM* primers. Like, 95%+ or more powder charge. That powder is *HARD* to ignite. You need a compressed load and a magnum primer to make it work. I use Federals. If you wanted low recoil rounds, choose a different *flake* powder. A faster burning one. Internal dynamics. Ball powders don't work as well. Use faster burning flake powder.
 
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There is only a .5gr difference in the rifle data and the pistol data in Hornady X. Top loads are determined by the SAAMI standard of 40k CUP or 36k PSI.
 
TN said, "That’s below the starting load for Hodgdon data for a 240 jacketed bullet and could be a cause of the accuracy issue. H110/W296 requires near-full power charges to burn consistently."

That's exactly right. I use 24.0 gr. of W296 in my .44 Mag handguns with a tight crimp. Bullet is the Lyman 429421. I used that same load in a Marlin .44 Mag rifle but had to single load as it didn't feed worth a damn. I kept hanging up and not entering the chamber. Accuracy was decent at 1.5" at 50 yards and 3 to 3.5" at 100 yards. Something you might try is rest the forearm on the front bad up against the receiver. Works well with lever action rifles that prove stubborn and on Ruger #1 rifles as well.
Paul B.
 
Just for the heck of it this PM:
About what I would consider "normal" with that light a rifle

Full Keith Standard Load in Rifle. Note bullet size & 'moderate' hardness

1894-Amrlin44-Mag-Lym429421-2400-PC-sm.jpg

Postscript errata: 1½ inch (not MOA)
I'll run topline 296/110 tomorrow.

.
 
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